Freftd asks: has hardcore always been the preserve of the middle class 16 – 24 white male? or is that a recent thing? im from the uk so maybe its different because it certainly seems to be like this now, outside of the beatdown tuffguy scene anyway.
For some reason, there’s always been this notion that hardcore is some kind of enclave of privileged white males who either tacitly or actively oppress and exclude OTWs, homos, women and other minorities. I am not sure how this got started, because I think it’s pretty much complete bullshit.
I can’t speak to the Euro scene, but in my experience most hardcore kids I know grew up like me: poor-ish, pissed off, fucked up outcasts and crazy people. Sure, there are some rich kids here and there (especially in places like Orange County), but I think they are the exception to the rule. Also, most of them don’t tend to stick around long: they have better things to do with their lives than dedicate them to hardcore, so it’s usually just a phase for them. And just because someone’s parents have some money in the bank doesn’t mean their life is perfect. Everybody has problems, and I think it’s fucking ignorant and gay to look down on someone because they come from a wealthy family. Are you only allowed to participate in hardcore if you’ve earned your “I haz a hard life” merit badge?? Oh, and nobody who has actually been poor thinks there is anything cool about it.
MY GOD THESE RICH WHITE PUSSIES
To me it’s really not about whether you grew up rich, poor or middle class, it’s about whether you are a chill person who is cool to be around, and that really has nothing to do with your socioeconomic status. For example, I have no idea whether the guys in The Wonder Years grew up with money or not, but I do I know they are whiny pussies with no heart who get butthurt and cry about how hard college is. Chances are that they are indeed middle-class white pussies, but the point is that it’s not about how much money you do or don’t have, it’s about whether you’re a cool person.
Finally, in many parts of the US the hardcore scene is pretty diverse. Go to a hardcore show in Southern California or New Mexico and you will see there’s no shortage of brown people in the scene there- see my Metal Sucks post “ARE LATINOS BORN 2 MOSH???” for more thoughts on this. There are also tons of gay people in hardcore, but nobody really gives a fuck so you don’t hear them talking about it all the time.
TL;DR version:
- Liberal fggts think all hardcore kids are rich white people
- In reality, hardcore is mostly for fuckups and losers
- There are some rich kids, but there is nothing wrong with being rich
- The real problem is weak pussies, not rich people
Wat u think??? Is hardcore for rich white pussies, poor white trash, Latin kids in snapbacks, or is it a big melting pot? Why are people obsessed with trying to prove that hardcore kids are rich jocks???
Thanks for backin up the rich white kids bro. People like us will never be able to have any sort of true self identity. No matter what a rich white kids accomplishes, he’s always “That kid who had rich parents and could afford college.” If a rich white kid gets involved in anything, he’s just “Some rich kid playing make believe with daddy’s credit card. He’ll grow out if it in a year or two”. Just because we’re rich doesn’t mean we’re not regular people.
/First world problems
Gold Cobra was really underrated, breh
Glad you dig it brah. We’re releasing an EP with several songs off of Gold Cobra remixed by Big Chocolate, keep a watch out for it!
Wait, I thought the whole point of being rich was so you don’t have to be regular people or be around regular people?
some fuckers just do it for the thrill. fucked up, isn’t it?
Lower middle class/poor people are less judgemental and generally nicer people, from my minor experiences.
Why do you speak with that accent now?
Everyone knows you’re not from the streets.
You went to prep school in Cambridge,
With daughters and sons of the privileged elite.
Their fortunes from shipping and industry,
Their futures in yacht clubs and tails.
So why do you speak with that accent now?
Everyone knows you’re moonlighting here.
To avail yourself of your heritage,
For a season or two in the sun.
Draw well from the funds in the trust,
Thanks to the fathers of fortunate sons,
For us it’s a matter of charging the gates
For you it’s a matter of blood and connections
Of blood and connections.
So who do you fool with that costume now?
Everyone knows you’re not who you seem
You’ve got a hard way about ou
For someone whose passage is already paid
By the sins and the schemes of your father
And the infinite reach of his arm
Draw well from the funds in the trust,
Thanks to the fathers of fortunate sons,
For us it’s a matter of charging the gates
For you it’s a matter of blood
Drink well from your bottomless cup
And bask in your good fortune
For us it’s a matter of charging the gates
For you it’s a matter of blood and connections
So where will you be when you tire of the fun
The escape, the charade, and your time in the sun
I know everyone does their own reinvention
But yours has a taste that’s hard to swallow
And what will you tell of your tenure with us?
Will you build yourself up, like the size of your hunt?
If they’re anything like what you’ve been telling us,
Those stories will make true believers
Of the chumps and the fools.
So why do you speak with that accent now?
Everyone knows you’re not from the streets.
ill trade you my street cred if you pay off my student loans :P
Sorry bro, not that rich.
Hardcore/punk is mostly a white middle class suburban thing. The rich whites are into indie/alt rock and poor white trash like rap and country.
word.
Rich white kids love rap too.
Living in a rich white community, I can back this up.
Really this has nothing to do with reality. Most of everyone listens to top 40 rap/rock/country no matter what. Everyone who isn’t quite normal is looking for something else in some other scene whether it’s hipsters, hardcore kids, metal kids, juggalos, whatever.
There are no fucking normal people in these subcultures, they’re all there for a reason no matter how it looks from the outside. Normal kids put vodka in their Sonic slushies and go to house parties where they get buck to Rick Ross, normal kids do NOT spend their money on shows with 15 attendees, shirts for shit nobody has heard of, and listen to music that makes every vagina in the vicinity flee.
I think scene kids are usally pretty well off, how else are they able to afford going to shows and buying all those expensive merch?
thats kinda true, a lot of scene kids are well off and this is just a phase for them. however, the guys in the bands are often poor fuckups just like hardcore, though- see Jonny Craig, for example
Scene kids are middle class to upper class fuckups. They’re not normal or else they wouldn’t be trying to escape from real life. File under “busted in 10th grade for selling adderall”.
Scene kids are spoiled kids who are angry at their parents for not giving them enough emotional support. :(
Rich kids have their place in hardcore. How else are American Legions/community centers/etc going to get rented out for bands to play? Poor dudes sure as hell won’t be able to do it. But I say that it’s not as much about rich/poor/middle class as much as it’s about being a pissed off fuckup who wants to blow off some steam with other pissed off fuckups.
Dude you sound a little butthurt about this one. As soon as hardcore or anything else becomes “about” something then it becomes “meaningful”, and as we all know anything that is meaningful is for gigantic whiny pussies!
Haha touche!
So you are saying that hardcore for pussies of varying socioeconomic and ethnic backgrounds?
Yeah pretty much that.
Good post bro,being poor isnt cool,you shouldnt have to be poor to do that shit. but being a fuckup/loser/employe at jiffy lube helps.
Xibalba jams hard as fuck!!! That video makes me wanna go to a sweet ass house show smoke some weed, and get wasted with my bros.
This article seems strangely sincere…. are you drunk?
yes, it is sincere. sorry brahs, it won’t happen again :(
Hardcore = white men rap music. Dunno who said that but read that from some interview from an oldfag nyhc dude ages ago. Said that hardcore is the same thing for poor white kids from the streets, as is rap for black guys from the projects
I still think the best way to describe hardcore kids is that the world has been kicking us in the head for way too long.
^ agree
I started writing that same thing, then read yours… Funny how a lot of ‘true’ hardcore kids/bands dress like rappers… Nick Jett??
Country music is rap for southern whites.
Except Country is mostly about the low class things (coors, ford, fishing) , while rap is about expensive things (crystal, lambos, diamonds) They both are about some ideal lifestyle that their audience wants to attain.
That’s because everyone in the south is poor, so that’s what we associate being rich with (having beer and fishing). I’m from the south, trust me on this one.
Also backed, getting a new ford = ballin.
Every time I read your posts I have to gauge how srs you are actually being.
Also, most of them don’t tend to stick around long: they have better things to do with their lives than dedicate them to hardcore, so it’s usually just a phase for them
Every time I read your posts I have to gauge how srs you are actually being.
Also, most of them don’t tend to stick around long: they have better things to do with their lives than dedicate them to hardcore, so it’s usually just a phase for them
haha totally serious!! why would someone with options spend their life playing in bands and going to shows?! that’s just dumb.
LOL, that is a good point. Guys with options who want to do music on the side usually end up playing in cover bands, community orchestras, joke bands, jazz combos, church etc. Basically old ppl stuff. And half of it with hollowbody guitars!
^ so true. don’t forget hawaiian t-shirts.
A couple of friends of mine and I always try to point those kids out at shows. Generally its the ones with super gauged ears and suicide silence shirts. Not that there is anything wrong with gauged ears, just saying that that’s generally a tell-tale sign that someone is trying way too hard to fit in.
You And Your Bros Sound Super Chill
big lol
Fuck… I meant to say that quote alone sums up hardcore kids…
That and the intro to Madball’s DIFMM…
Basically there were two points I was trying to get across, which I’m not sure I did:
1- hardcore is mostly fucked up poorish kids IMO, not rich kids (to me, middle class is rich)
2- i’m really tired of the “who is more poor” pissing contest/accusing other people of being a “rich kid,” as though being rich somehow invalidates you as a human being
Yeah, that is pretty much it in a nutshell… I do think there are a lot of hardcore kids that try to look rich though… At least here in Aus wearing a lot of the American branded clothes which used to cost a fortune… (not so much now thanks to online shopping)
I think if you are lucky enought to have parents pay for all your expensive equipement, appreciate it, please don’t sing about a hard life though…
Flipside, don’t complain about the wealthier kids having the good equipement, cause chances are your band will still sound a shit with good equipment as it did bad equipement.
Middle class is not “rich”. If one of both of your parents is some kind of doctor or lawyer the yeah you could say upper middle class/rich but if they are like bankers or teachers then thats middle class/definately not rich. Lower middle class if your parents are like plumbers or secrataries. Poor would be working at McDonalds or on welfare.
What if I make good money but I got no class?
In the UK…yeah, it’s certainly all for middle-class guys. Most of the UK scene is pretty influenced by ikeacore (Dead Swans and More Than Life crank it up by being really heavily Joy Division influenced). It’s all Orange amps, check shirts and Gibson guitars. To be honest, as a middle-class ikeacore fan who likes Joy Division, I’m pretty okay with this, but…yeah, the OP’s right. It’s all guys like me.
Nothing says middle-class Ikeacore like Knuckledust and Ninebar.
?
You’re talking out your arse mate
you just don’t see the other side of the scene because it’s not around where you live
Broken Teeth, Last Witness, Brutality Will Prevail. All bands without that ikea-core asthete. Not to mention the most popular hardcore, at least where I live, is the most aggro e.g. Hatebreed, Emmure, Terror, Deez Nuts, Acacia Strain, and most of the HC bands around here are trying to ape that sound
…knuckledust, bun dem out!!! uk hc can make one drool a lot…just dont listen to trc :D
anyway old post is old…
“Also, most of them don’t tend to stick around long: they have better things to do with their lives than dedicate them to hardcore, so it’s usually just a phase for them”
Either they move on or they fuck up their lives thanks to hardcore and become the poor losers they werent in the first place (via playing in terrible badns instead of getting an education, getting hands/neck tattoos etc)
This post was great. So was the one about girls in metal on MS (100% truth srs) and the one about touring. im just too lazy to give all the articles a thumbs up.
i suppose its because people like to know when theyre listening to people be angry in the music if they think the person singing has a genuine problem to be angry about. just to let you know im 20 nd white (actually kinda brown) but still white. you could call me fuck up though, MY GOD YOU ARE RIGHT
I would like to start an angry sounding band but sing about being awesomely rich and affluent. Which I guess would still just make it rap for white dudes…
“see the Swiss on my wrist / haters can’t afford this / GO!” *breakdown*
Greatest. Lyrics. Ever.
Srs.
i am very very very down for this, lets make this band.
You guys never heard TRC then? I especially like the track where they’re talking about what they’re gonna wear on their night on the town: the Oswald Boatengs and the white Ralph polo with the top button done-up.
Just started listening to those guys recently… Love the Bright Lights EP!!
Just on the whole gay thing: I’m queer and listen/play/MOSH2 hardcore, punk, DIY etc.
It fucking sucks that a majority of people I meet think it’s such so rare and ~KRAZYYYY that I suck cock and play in a hardcore band, wear “band shirts” and pretty much just look like a regular dude (fgt). Is it REALLY that rare? Jesus, if I could swallow that fucking plastic fish every weekend and sweat it out to the latest Lady Gaga Bollywood remix I would, but that’s just not the way I’m wired. Those guys have it pretty good though, IMO.
Sometimes I think they are right, because I have never before MET another homo that listens to hardcaw 4LYF. And by actually I mean not: “I like the heavy metal tunes they play at :insert alternative/punk/indie club here: where all the scene kids go!!!! And the Emos!!!! DW the club is on the gayest street in the city so boys are allowed to kiss boys there!!!!”
Basically, I wish that I would come into contact with people like me so you don’t have to read posts like these.
damn dude that sucks– i know tons of gay hardcore kids, and nobody really gives a fuck at all that they are gay. One of my friends has a homo tattoo (two “male” symbols or whatever) right next to the Judge hammers, which everybody including him thinks is hilarious and awesome.
I know quite a few gay hardcore/metal kids as well, just how it goes. Also I love to sweat it out to Lady Gaga remixes (kind of gay srs)
This description usually fits the vegan straight edge whole foods shopping “hardcore” kids. Most of the people I’ve known who are into or in hardcore bands were manual labor working drug addict fuck ups. But I agree that it doesn’t matter either way. Some of the chillest bros are dudes who were from the rich, nice areas. Some of them would even be cool enough to let you borrow their equipment at shows.
yup, or criminals (drug dealers, stick up kids, etc)
Metal is worse for whiteness, in my experience. My buddy and I are always the only OTWs at metal shows.
Bros pat us on the back though, so it’s not like we’re excluded, we’re overly welcomed.
Whenever there are some black guys at a punk or metal show down here everybody wants to hang with them.
Well said, when I was a teen one of the reason I preferred metal and hardcore over the indie and punk rock that most of my friends listened to was those genres were all about well off rich kids romanticising and fetishising the life of poor people, and trying to pass themselves off as poor people.
With hardcore/metal it seemed more like ‘doesnt matter where you come from, we both feel the same way about the world’ kinda vibe, which I could dig.
ironically rich white kids always want to pretend they are poor OTWs, and poor OTWs want to attain the same socioeconomic status as rich white people. Guess which one is embarrassing faggotry, and which one is admirable and ambitious??
solid post. the “who is poorer” bullshit is fucking stupid. i’ve always hated that. like, how poor is poor enough? is lower middle class still not legit because they’re still middle class? if my parents worked their asses off and saved up their whole lives so i could have a decent life and go to college, does that mean i cant be angry about how fucked up society is?
“how poor is poor enough”
the answer is that you can never be downtrodden and oppressed enough in the eyes of the PC Police / No Fun Club / etc. No matter what your story is, it’s never enough for them, especially if you play a style of music that they don’t like. They exist for the sole purpose of finding fault with others, aka THE HATERS BALL.
It’s funny. Most people I know look down on and hate rich people because “they think they’re better than everyone.” Completely hypocritical. How can you look down on a group of people because you assume they all look down on your group of people? I know awesome rich and poor people, and I know rich and poor people who are the biggest chodes on the planet. Hardcore is all about being pissed off at a common enemy, not financial status.
” How can you look down on a group of people because you assume they all look down on your group of people”
I don’t think it’s a reflection of Hardcore as much as it is a reflection on society. A lot of people resent anyone who has more than they do. srs talk.
Very true. I was speaking in a more general talk.
Or more general sense.
bingo
All I know is that hardcore = female repellant
That’s not the case here in the UK. You’ll always see a fair few girls at UK Hardcore shows, mostly reasonably hot too.
never knew there was an association between hardcore and rich ppl. there are rich peeps and poor peeps in every “scene.” i know people from really tuff neighborhoods who are into indie/hipster shit and really cute, ghey japanese music.
When i was 14 and 15 and scene kids started getting more common the majority came from upper middle class homes. They were the kids running the local scene around here at first. Most of them claimed edge lol. They had money for the best equipment so they were all in bands. Little by little ghetto mexican kids from other parts of town started putting together their own bands. Thats where more of the heavy stuff came from. The rich white kids were all trying to sound like the number 12 haha
My War is the essence of hardcore philosophy. Everything else is for buff dummies.
Also, do you think there are any millionaires who get super pumped when they hear old Slap Shot records?
Wow a sincere post.
To me, Hardcore is not best viewed in terms of race or wealth but instead class. If you ever get your hands on it watch the documentary “You weren’t there: A History of Chicago Punk” especially the Articles of Faith section which illustrates my point. When Punk first came about it was the near exclusive domain of urban hipsters in places like NYC, L.A., Chicago. They were usually 20 somethings and art school lamers. Eventually, punk started oozing out of the elite urban enclaves and into the exurbs and rural parts of America. When these uncultured knuckledraggers from the suburbs, usually teens started to infiltrate the scene and form their own bands with their heavier/faster/louder takes on Punk, the first wave punks, noses thoroughly in the air, couldn’t get out fast enough. Hence the triumph of Hardcore. Punk was no longer hip for the hob knobs. It was now too violent, too macho, too simple, too fast, and had too many of ‘those’ people.
These ‘hardcore punk’ bands went on to have more success than their hipster forebears. Most of the famous old American punk bands you can name Black Flag/Minor Threat/Adolescents etc were not first wave punk bands. They were teenagers from the suburbs who got into punk and raided it from the outside sending the hipster punks back to the discos ‘like punk never happened.’ No one gives a shit about the Alice Bag Band or Black Market Baby today. Hardcore essentially MADE Punk.
Some of these kids were from relatively well off backgrounds with families who made their fortunes in ‘plastics’ and other endeavors that would be snickered at cocktail parties, many of them not so much (a lot of so called ‘suburbs’ in America really aren’t very nice.) But they were all essentially outsiders.
Cool story bro?
wow, great post! agree 1000000%- those first generation artfag punk bands were quickly forgotten by everybody except the most diehard oldfags. Kids who are 15 today love Black Flag and Minor Threat, nobody but people who write gay books about ‘punk’ gives a shit about Television, X, or any of those terrible “seminal punk bands.”
Personally, my favorite thing about ignorant hardcore is that it scares the shit out of/revolts artfags and pussies
That eats into one of my pet peeves, music history as written by rock journalists, especially about hardcore/punk name dropping bands that no one who actually listened to hardcore music really cared about but that’s another post.
While we’re on the subject. There is a distinct difference between the punk crowd and hardcore fans. Punk is some art school faggot with blue hair pretending to be poor and quoting Noam Chomsky, even though he doesn’t really understand it. Hardcore is the guy who got expelled from high school that will fuck with your 13 year old sister in the ass for the lulz, then get drunk and fight someone in a 7-11 parking lot because he just got fired from Denny’s.
To be fair, there is lots of punx music about congregating with other smelly, ridiculously dressed people, imbibing all kinds of harmful substances and having gross sex with each other. And for awhile you couldn’t go see a HxC band without being submitted to a 15 minute lecture about challenging heteronormativity and expanding abortion access before you were allowed to mosh. This is the culture that invented Straight Edge, remember.
D, how many times you gonna post that Xibalba vid, brah? Not gonna lie, I’m super jelly of that party they’re having in it, though
will post until youtube runs out of bandwidth!
it doesnt matter if youre rich or poor when youre surrounded by assholes. is that the one of the points of this post or am i getting it wrong?
100% correct!
In American Hardcore he says that most hardcore kids were from working class families. That means the income was anywhere from 20k a year to like 50k a year. That’s a pretty broad income bracket. Shit, my dad works 50 hours a week in a shitty ass, nasty ass factory but he makes 97k a year. I think the definition of working class is more the job than the income. As for hardcore, it’s basically for whoever likes aggressive music. I know a band where one kid’s dad makes well over 6 figures, and the kid makes like 35k; the drummer’s dad is poor as fuck and an alcoholic, and the other guitarist is right in the middle.
Middle class is a pretty broad term in America. It seems to mean anyone from potato farmer to investment banker. Most kids were “middle class” in that their dad had a 60 hour a week job and they had a family TV. They still went to a usually not very good public highschool, where they were probably a fuckup and had no delusions about ‘College.’ But even many of the ‘rich kids’ involved in hardcore were closer in socio-economic terms to their middle class peers than the children of the glitterati and the leisure class. Their parents were Orange County donut empire republicans, they weren’t movie producers and they didn’t write for the New Yorker. Much more comfortable economically, but socially still outsiders.
So what is considered rich these days?
There are so many varying degrees to it.
Do you people even know how most trust funds work?
What if your parents are rich, but very frugal and that never gave any money to you.
It can also be a double edged sword for kids who want to do something artistic and they have “rich” parents who dream about them being doctors or lawyers and the “Trust fund” will only be available if you go down the doctor, lawyer route.
I like scumbag hardcore bands as much as the next guy but how do you know that White Trash Rob isn’t borrowing money from mommy
I never really got why fellow rich white kids wanted to be (or at least seem) poor. I mean, if you can become a doctor or a lawyer, why the fuck would you SMOKE WEED ERRYDAY, drop out of school and start a shitty band?
Maybe they aren’t cut out to be a doctor.
Don’t get me wrong but i’m think hardcore is for scumbag,white trash and outcasts have nothing to do in life except giving their heart and mind in hardcore.I don’t think became rich and succesful in general life make you a non-legit old time hardcore dude.no one born in the same social class.And anyway when you became a parents you don’t want your kid are poor,hungry,piss off and do the same mistakes than you.You want and do the best for them.
But when you act like a pussie and you try to act like tough when you came from a nice wealthy place..don’t piss me off..cuz’ is just a bunch of teenage angst for little trendy dick.But i think the hardcore scene split in half you got the old school people over 26 dealt with real hardcore social issue and the rest of kid under 26 dealing with funny band and gay ass lyrics.
I’m don’t try to play the old school star but actually except inside of the beatdown scene .the kids are wealthy and don’t really care about the street.this is just a phase for a majority of them.
Is being a rich white kid that fucking horrible???
I came upon this post randomly. I was born into a Mexican family in Orange County not all of it is nice. I was raised in a room that was rented with my brother, mother, and father (typical stereotype, I know). All the rich white kids that listen to hardcore buy their “crucial” merch online they never make an effort to come out to a show. They wear merch as a fashion statement not to support the band. Mostly the white popular kids all talk about weed and drinking. They drive in Mercedes Benz (no joke). They’re stuck up. They look at others as they’re we’re untouchables/scum. Then again not all of them are like that, but the ones that are don’t appreciate shit.
Wow! Now i’m totally reassured! Hardcore IS the thing for me, being a white female born is upper-middle class and now working as a doctor (orthopedic surgeon – SO HARDCORE!)
Congrats on the blog! Like you acidity!
I’m a rich OTW kid (yeah, we do exist – two doctors for parents) but every possible fucked rich family stereotype applies to us. Plus, I have bipolar disorder (refuse to take meds) and have pretty much been a fuck up my whole life.
I’m also into hardcore and tr00 punx.
Who speaks for me?