In b4 every new band’s Facebook profile pic looks like this
We saw that my predictions for 2012 being “the year of the tr00″ are coming to life, and it looks like I was also right when I predicted last year that The Next Big Thing would be white hardcore kids jocking Mexicans. Hardcore bands have been appropriating black urban culture for years (via wiggerish arm movements), but 2012 is all about taking your cues from Mexican gangsters (aka cholos)! Apologies if this is TLDR, but it’s actually a pretty complex phenomenon that requires a lot of explaining.
PART 1: A BRIEF HISTORY OF HARDCORE & GRAFFITI
Until recently, when hardcore bands used graffiti-style art it was always in the style of the 1980s New York style, as you can see when you compare this piece by COPE2 and an old E-Town cover. Personally I never liked the NY style at all, but when you say “graffiti letters,” this is what people think of. Also, it’s important to note that this kind of graffiti has NOTHING to do with gangs.
Here’s an example of classic cholo block letters, in this case from the 18th Street gang (which you may know about from that TV show Gangland). This style is native to the LA area, but you’ll see it all over the west. If you ever see “SUR X3,” “NORTE XIV,” 13, or 14 scribbled on something, that’s cholo graffiti. In contrast to the NY style of graffiti, this stuff is gangster as fuck. If you aren’t down, you definitely can’t go around writing X3 on stuff, and like the line in “Pocket Full Of Fatcaps” goes, even catching a tag in the wrong neighborhood could get you fucked up.
Left: COPE tag, example of classic NY style graffiti. Center: some LA gangster shit- KREEPER is the guy who wrote it, HST and P13 refers to his gang (Paramount 13 or something, I don’t know). Right: SAGA TKO tag, example of typical LA-style, non-gang graffiti. Note the obvious influence of cholo graffiti and how much more angular and complex it is than NY style.
The first hardcore band to use cholo graffiti art was SUICIDAL TENDENCIES. This is because they were actual gangsters- not sure of the details, but I would guess that they were affiliated with some Sureno set based on the fact that they always wore blue and rep 13, which you couldn’t really get away with in LA if you weren’t down. There were a few other bands like BEOWULF and EXCEL who also used this kind of art in the 80s, but it was pretty much limited to bands from Venice (which was pretty shitty and full of gangs at the time).
In the early 90s, DESPISE YOU also used a lot of cholo-style art. They were (mostly) white guys, but it made sense because they are from Inglewood (which was/is a pretty shitty part of LA full of gangsters) and obviously love Suicidal Tendencies.
Think of Famous Stars & Straps and Rebel 8 as the “patient zero” of the current wave of cholo imagery: both of them are run by people who know what’s up (Travis Barker, who is from the 909, and Mike Giant, who is from ABQ and one of the best graffiti writers of the 90s), but most of the people who buy their gear don’t.
PART 2: CHOLOS AND THE WHITES WHO LOVE THEM
The basic point of part 1 is that until recently, the use of cholo-style art in hardcore was limited to bands who were either semi-gangsters themselves, or grew up in Southern California surrounded by them. Either way, the bands who used it had a pretty good understanding of where the style came from and what it means. Not so these days: from what I can tell, cholo style imagery has replaced NY-style graffiti letters as the default aesthetic for bands who want to be seen as tr00 hxc.
ROTTING OUT do these graphics better than any current band since Despise You. This is because they are from LA and they know what’s up. I’m including them here because Tumblrsluts and tr00 hxc bros jock them, often in the form of really bad attempts at their visual aesthetic, much like shitty bands from Wisconsin tried to look and act like Madball in the 90s (with embarrassing/lulzy results).
BACKTRACK’s logo is well done, but it’s pretty funny to see this style (which is so closely tied to Southern California) with “NY” in the middle of it. I guess it’s like someone writing “MEXICO” and filling it with the stars and stripes of the American flag?
Mind = blown at this style used on a flyer for a bunch of bands (mostly) from the East Coast playing a show in the South.
It doesn’t get much tr00er than TERROR, nor does it get much shittier than the imitation-cholo “DIEHARD” letters on the back of this shirt.
And then there is the unfortunate case of Vincent from THE ACACIA STRAIN’s clothing company Diamond Cut. This is what happens when white guys from Massachusetts become Rebel 8 fanboys. Embarrassing…
If you were thinking, “Oh come on Sarge, it’s not THAT bad, you just picked a couple of random shirts. This isn’t an actual thing,” then I present to you my final example: even VANNA, a bunch of post-hardcore fggts from Maryland, are hopping on the bandwagon.
This Old English shirt is pretty fucking sweet, but if you are white you probably shouldn’t wear it
Let me be clear: I’m not pulling the old “STOP LIKE THAT THING U LIKE, U DON’T KNOW WHAT ITS RLY ABOUT,” I’m just saying that I called it. I’m not buttmad, but it is a little different than when bands use NY-style graffiti imagery in that this style is inherently gangster. It could get awkward if kids end up wearing some cholo-style graphic around the wrong person at the wrong time. Nobody is going to mistake them for gangsters or anything, but some cholo who’s having a bad day might just fuck with them anyway.
Was this post long as fuck, or was it long as fuck?? What do you think of this trend? How long until some French wigger band puts SUR X3 on a t-shirt???
Don’t know about the US but in Australia the whole flannelette shirt and hat look is big, that came from Mexican gangs as far as I know.
My understanding is it originated from bogans in the 80s, ‘cos they were cheap as fuck and available at Woolworths.
Hahaha flannos and footy shorts/socks from woolies!
Nothing to do with gangsters!
Does me being half Latino give me more tr00 credit, or does being half white and upper middle class nullify and points that it would gain me?
you get tr00 cred from whiteys just for being “ethnic”, but the latinos will smell your suburban stink and mock you for it
Lololol this exactly
I can’t get any tr00 cred, then. : (((((((((( I’m as pale and white as they come.
It’s kind of like when Foundation got threatened by a bunch of freemasons for having freemason designs on their shirt. Same thing happened to them with Hell’s Angels lol fucking dweebs.
Sarge, do a piece of hardcore bands with free mason/Illuminati designs and why it’s so troo now!
Who is foundation and where can I learn more about this story? Sorry, but it’s not a band name you could really google
Foundation + ATL/atlanta hardcore might help
it was bracewar not foundation
FYI – several Boston HXC illuminaries have become Freemasons…
The two seem so irreconcilable. But it will make for some funny fucking lyrics
lol you are totally buttmad, but who cares. it’s human
I like learning things.
I felt the same way about this post. SYWH is fun AND educational.
I’d say that Rotting Out should get a little bit of a pass on it. Their singer was an illegal Mexican who has spent time doing graffiti and shit through his childhood. Also just look at him: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx98ryNGVp1qahuqjo1_500.jpg
Also, lol @ Foundation getting threatened by Freemasons. How pussy do you have to be to back down to a bunch of old men who get together to organize charities?
If it wasnt clear im the post, yes, i think rotting out do this style pefectly
Lol @ Terror choosing Cholo graff for their 1432nd shirt design.
srsly, the so-cal cholo-tagbanger “style” is whack art-wise. Always was, always will be because it ain’t really about style, it is about getting up to mark territory: drips and lameshit waggly lines and all. It’s lame for most anyone to take it up for streetcred or whatever, esp for a band without reason of being Sureno-repping retards or whatevs. You can diss NY style if you want, but it works and there are a ton of styles (including the classic TKO, banger-influenced (but much more stylee) shit Sarge refs briefly (HEXONE’s work was/is still in my mind the best evar of that) to bite for your merch stees.
Suburban white troo fggts trying to be hard by being brown gangster style is all i see with this, but I’m prolly a hater who just doesn’t “get it” cause I grew up, got a job an comfortable crib, and only pencil graf on notebooks these days.
I just think it’s funny that NY style basically hasn’t changed since like 1981, and for whatever reason people still think it’s the pinnacle of artistic achievement. Personally I think it look amateurish, but it’s easy to read and I guess that helps– I guess you wouldn’t want ZESER or PUSH to do your band logo unless you are OK with it being unreadable.
The entire Black Dubstep community seems to perfectly okay with unreadable logos, so it’s probably a natural progression to have unreadable HC graffiti logos now.
all those deathmetal/deathcore band don’t mind illegible logos either
How long until wigger slam joins the graffiti art logo trend?
Without Remorse already has.
Depends on who we’re talking about so far as that “pinnacle” stuff, rite? The generic NYC style is probably seen as still dope by kids who don’t/didn’t really write or read Can Control, first and prolly only style they might try their hand at, and it’s generic and safe for mass consumption in graphics like varsity font is. The cholo style is edgy cause it’s used by people who don’t care if it sucks, tied to dangerous non-whites, so less frequently used for merch/logos and shit, but now picking up mirers among white pussies. BUT no one in the graf world thinks it is artistically interesting (mostly unchanged set of moves since the 80s just like the NYC style). So I agree, and would love to see some more innovative/risky/unreadable styles used.
Fuck, I’m longwinded.
Totally agree- I didn’t want this post to be even longer than it was, but IMO the most advanced graffiti these days is the LTS/KOG style ala ZESER, PYSA, REYES, PUSH, etc. It’s definitely gang writing influenced (like all LA graffiti), but obviously takes those elements in a completely different direction. And of course, everybody hates it because it’s too new, just like they hated the AWR/MSK style until a couple years ago and now everybody all over the planet copies it.
to each their own
holy fucking LOL. truer words have never been documented! Sarge, keep callin this kinda shit, it’s gold.
great post
Coming from a recovered cholo, this article is great. I only recently threw away my over sized, black and white checkered button up. Also, Nike Cortez
I still wear dickies and white cortez on the regular :(
I still wear dickies too but cortez… ouch
I was gonna add feelsbadman but those shoes are comfortable as fuck so I guess you win
I THINK I MIGHT HAVE HAD THE BEST IDEA EVER:
http://i43.tinypic.com/240zoeq.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/23u7t6h.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/e68yt3.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/21kcsg3.jpg
CHOGELISMS!
Coming from someone who grew up in the 818 and 909(internet bro fist for D) if these white boys start wearing these cholo/gangster shirt designs, theres either going to be a huge clowning session going your way, an ass kicking, or a robbery. 1 of the 3, it all depends on what drugs the residents are fucked up on.
I forgot to mention that there are a fair amount of hardcore kids in Ohio with 13 tattoos on their faces. They aren’t trying to be gangsters, I think it’s for some midwest “hardcore crew” or whatever. I was talking to one of them (who was maybe 19 and 130 lbs) and I was like “Dude if you ever go to California you really should put a band-aid over that.” He said “Nah man, I’m not worried,” but he probably should be worried.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4Xf7Azg-1Y
These guys?
Why would anyone go to a show like this?
How great would a SYWH parody video of this be.
SYWH LIFE!
Mirin dat sofa jump @ 2:07
Is anyone else really bothered by the hot dog falling off the grill at 1:22? Crowd killing, retarded facial tattoos, and property damage are all things I can handle, but wasted meat is just a fucking bummer.
Oh well, they probably still ate it anyway.
That’s one of them generic, discount Aussie brand gas grills they sell at Target. Shit always rolls off–bad design. Gotta put sausages/dog on parallel to the grill . . . or buy a gas grill that costs more than 80 bucks.
Let’s start a pledge drive to get these kids a vacation in El Salvador.
This explains the chinos and flannel I saw being sold at Kohls not long ago. Then again, I live in a Mexican-filled area, so it’s appropriate. Also, I don’t necessarily mind the letters, but I do get tired of seeing skulls with flipped-brim hats. Some bands should try to break new ground with designs ya know?
Love the NYC style.
I don’t get the East Coast bands jumping on. How could you not hang your head in shame wearing these when you see real Latinos in the pit?
This post reminds me that I haven’t played Jet Grind Radio in a long time.
+1
absolutely lost it at the tags this time!
Post was pure gold. Making me feel like “I have sense of what’s up in the states these days” without actually knowing shit about what’s going down. Love the info-density in this post. Would subscribe to rss, A++++.
WSTRSS A++++
It’s still pretty cool kids are into graf. Even if it is geographically incorrect. It could be worse. You could have For the Fallen Dreams hoodie graf dopplegangers.
Like I said, I’m not buttmad about it, I love this style. My reaction is basically equal parts a) amazement at seeing people in Maryland or whatever doing it and b) hoping nobody gets beat up over wearing a shirt graphic.
You hate MD so much. According to the conservative news outlets MD has a big gang problem. I say, don’t believe the hype.
Maryland is a dump and its full of gangs. Bands from there should rep Utz crab chips though, not graffiti styles from the other side of the country.
Backed.
MDHC bands are the tr00 crabcore.
I’m not from Maryland, but I’ve read a book by a guy from Baltimore who seems to verify that it’s awful there. In Baltimore, at least.
This post is stupid stop being a bitch
I bet 6 month @ first french wannabe cholo band ..if it doenst already exist…about 12 month and ull find it in german beatdown also XD
and if the one of these bands starts to read a bit about it, they ll do a cypress hill style song….cause thats where it comes from XD
LOL waiting for this now
IT IS ALREADY DONE
http://www.myspace.com/goldenxdistrict
no wigger though…music is pretty sweet
inb4 defeater uses aztlan 13 imagery in an artsy video about “immigrants in the post-war 1940s”
<3 u (no homo… maybe)
do ganster still wear fliphats with stuff writing on them???
They never did, that was just a suicidal tendencies thing
it’s been a skatepunk thing for years, and throwback thrash band Municipal Waste ripped SD off completely
http://bit.ly/yxLTOi
MW is one of those bands that would be cool if nobody else started doing the same thing. The Art of Partying could be an in-context classic if albums like it weren’t a dime a dozen.
agreed. plus dave witte gives them old skool cred
just with writing on them cuz i remember seen old la gang footage and seeing dudes with fliphats
also the movie colors
also this:
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/226018_184652421602259_100001725071258_493573_1748400_n.jpg
Is that a Wu-Tang tat in cholo letters?
yes and she’s from london
silly euros
totally read the gang graffiti in the third picture down as “SEXVEST”
Lol Vanna’s from Boston dude. There’s nothing in Maryland.
My bad- same difference tho
http://new.merchnow.com/products/137676
Check it, Pierce The Veil is in one it too.
Amazing- thats actually well done though.
I actually like it.. Ha
Maybe so, but they totally ripped off the San Diego Padres. http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/54/73/full/q9xutbwhi4hgcnwuhqsy7xire.gif
lotta bands use their local sports logo. Winds of Plague and Terror rep the Dodgers, Veil of Maya reps the chicago MLB team (i forget the name).
I knew some bands did that, but I didn’t know it was that popular. I do think that an old friend of mine sold a few shirt designs to a band or two based off sports logos, though.
I have a Harm’s Way 90′s Bull’s shirt, and I’ve seen Gaza’s Utah Jazz repping, it’s pretty popular.
Everybody in the history of Los Angeles uses the Dodgers LA. More than any other logo perhaps, it’s an example of the power of simple but clever schematic graphic design.
This
they are from san diego lol. makes kinda sense i guess
You’re right. I had no idea. It makes a lot more sense now. For some reason, I just assumed that they picked some random team logo to use. lulz
I’ve always loved that So Cal style – for me it was first in Dogtown skateboards and Thrasher mag. Conversely, I always hated that NYC lettering style – so lazy & uninteresting looking – even before I knew anything about graffiti (of which I still know shockingly little)…
I thought in the 90s skaters jock this cholo shit
The look yeah. The tags were always illegible NY style, though.
Dystopia’s logo was basically the best thing about the band.
Think some 40+ year old Hesher saw that Terror shirt then looked them up on Youtube thinking they’d sound like ST or Excel or Cryptic Slaughter was all disappointed when he heard them and they sounded like Judge with better production?
Lololol
What about Mike Giant and Rebele 8????…. or it’s many ripoffs from skate shops…. that stuff is worn by many kids
oh, you mentionedd it, sorry I’m late for work and posting…. I think Backtrack has the exact same fans as Rotting Out so can rock this style
My dad is a real cholo from East Los, and I had a few brothers that lived their that were into some gangster shit, The oldest, Little Pete and I would write letters to each other in the late ’90′s(I live in the pnw) right before he was shot and killed. He would include little sketches with the cholo graffiti on them, and being a kid, I thought it was the coolest thing ever, so I would write like that on everything. One day my dad came over from Montana to visit and saw that I had written “Mexico” and “13″ on my wall like that. Needless to say, he flew into a rage, and nobody has ever hit me that hard since.
Please tell me you have uttered the phrase “Whats up to my homies lil pete, sleepy and joker”
No, unfortunately not. My white mom was always down on me when I tried to act Mexican.
“but moooom, thats my clica!!”
I did say “Mom, East Los is in my blood!” Facepalm.jpg
Oh jesus. I seriously got red in the face when i read that :(
So fucking awesome lolol
Yeah, file under:
“Things you said when you were 11 that you would give anything to un-say” :/
Can we start jocking for troo bishes to do dis!?!?
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=rGOOlcdpfLg
My homegirl Smiley
To my ruca puppet
The HXC scene in Richmond has a couple of distinct styles. Noobs and try-hards who mostly imitate what ever is going on in New York or California and somewhat older fuck-ups who you can’t tell if they are rednecks or punks (myself included, but I’m a construction worker so I plead for amnesty). They is some definite overlap and also crusties. The dudes from United Blood cater to mostly the first crowd but I ain’t mad at them cause they set up some decent shows.
What about Bleeding Through’s The Truth logo http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AOhC9DzHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg ?
They’re from Anaslime, so they get away with it.
Dear tr00 hXc kids,
Disregard graffiti art; acquire varsity font. Bitches love varsity font.
This is actually interesting. Never knew about all those things.
I have no idea about graffiti-style, but there’s a fucking ton of hispanic gangs in Texas and I thought it was well-known that you don’t fuck around with graffiti unless it looks like it belongs in an artbook and if you put numbers on shit you might get bodied and left in the riverbed?
Man, I’m thankful that as a latino kid growing up in the poor streets, my parents never let me hang out with the wrong crew. I could’ve easily be one of the guys repping real Cholo stuff and beating up one of the oblivious tr00 kids and shit.
The best thing about all this is that the exact opposite is happening with the Mexithrash kids in L.A.. There is absolutely no innovation or novelty in this style: they are brown people playing the exact same music and jocking the exact same style of (mostly) white bands from the 80s. Granted, there were probably plenty of Mexican kids involved in original thrash, but in L.A. at least, the demographics of thrash revival are the complete opposite–there are a couple of white kids in bands I’ve seen and played with, but otherwise it’s exclusively (I avoid “uniquely” because it has connotations of “interesting”) a Mexican/Guatemalan/Salvadoran-American thing.
Suburban Scum has a shirt like this http://www.allinmerch.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/SS_GRAF_TEE_.jpg
Thats actually more NY style, which makes sense since they are from NJ
It’s a bit weird how this is pretty much dead as an Element Of Hip-Hop, but seems to be making a resurrgence for tr00core white kids. Co-opting other people’s culture is nothing new of course, I just never expected it to play out quite this way.
Another gaem nerd graffiti reference: Mark Ecko’s Getting Up was a pretty sweet game, but I dont know anyone else who’s ever played it.
Always thought it looked sweet, as a white teenager, but never played it, because regardless of my idiotic whiteness and fiending for anything street related, I thought “This game is probably a superhomosex attempt at making something street that isn’t fun to play.”
Is it worth $10-20?
Yeah, if you can find it for cheap i’d say it’s worth owning. Basically a mix between Jet Grind and the Prince of Persia series. Controls are somewhat clunky, but a unique experience overall.
I own that game! I don’t know that I’d say it’s the best game of all time, but I think they did a damn good job of making a graffiti video game. Wish they’d make a sequel, I think it has a ton of potential as a concept
I have, man. But being from jersey originally we pretty much sucked eckos dick at every oPpurtunity. Can’t tell you how many friends I had at the ages of 12-15 who’s bedrooms were COMPLETELY covered in those red fucking rhino stickers.
ok so yeah, it’s a thing, it makes me think of piece by piece, i don’t really mind it. the thing i do mind is the denim vesting, bearding, sons of anarchy watching motorcycle fetish thing. there has been a band shirt or two with mc rocker type designs. why would you want to ape a bunch of hooker screwing scummy dads? i don’t get it.
Yeah, Crowd Deterrent has that kind of sons of anarchy/motorcycle/cholo gangster thing. Black Label Society has it too, I’ve heard some beef with Hells Angels happend in one or two shows because of that sons of anarchy t-shirt style ripoff.
Sarge, I only wish your wisdom was more widespread. Could save that white kid from la jolla who writes his dumb nickname in the wrong place a lotta trouble.
Did anyone notice how that Suicidal Tendencies album cover was the biggest crime against design and layout ever achieved?
http://hardcoreshirt.com/
look at the header logo lol… and i’m looking at xibalba’s merch and seeing absolutely nothing in the cholo style, makes the white kids jocking it soooooo funny to me for some reason
Fuck that, Make Move did this the best.
Repping the 21323 over here, as growing up in east los and the CITY of LA for that matter i do find it hilarious how history repeats itself and you will always find one culture jocking another no matter wut time period but as a native angelino i will say this… Ive always hated that bubbly NY graff style cus it was way too easy to write… And i concur with sarge 100% on this post… Yet i do think rotting out are from san pedro/long beach so the ghetto cholo in me is proud that these fux made it and shit…least they repping LA in the chill ghetto socal way that we know.. Now if only my east los death/black/thashheads can unite N put an end to the WOP lame hxc dancing bullshit by which i have such a hatred for… tr00 hxc= circle jerks, black flag, COC, battalion of saints, dead kennedys, etc. Not this catching invisible pennies on the floor/ swatting invisible flying monkeys breakdown bullshit… But ay …. haters gonna hate… now please be safe so i wont have to go up there Lolz PEACE brah
A lillate to the party..but growing up in San Diego in the 90s..i saw this eeeeeeverywhere—fences,building,streetsigns,concrete,SUR13,SURX3,XIV, even spilling into the asian and black neighborhoods…
as much as i like to separate troo graffiti from gang scribes—graffiti clothing/hip-hop is kind of the main culprit in commercializing this font…now you can see White Kids in San Clemente,CA rocking clothes with huge cholo font on it…its a staple in pop culture, especially in SO CAL, and prob here to stay
I get it….but fuck it. You think the New Yorkers didn’t say the same shit about England playing punk? Then LA playing punk? Shit spreads, get used to it.
LOL! He’s not mad about it bro! It’s just a bit weird to see suburban kidz from the East Coast getting into hardcore gang stuff from the West.
Not ONE mention of Chaz Bojorquez BRO? (or Craig Stecyk or VCJ)
http://hammer.ucla.edu/image/4552/600/450.JPG