Have you ever uttered the phrase “I was born in the wrong decade”? Have you ever criticized a band somebody liked by saying “(band x) is only doing what (band y) was doing twenty years earlier”? Do you run an unpopular music blog or write record reviews? Odds are that if you have, or know somebody who has said/done any of these things, you have had direct experience with oldfaggotry. Although I tend to doubt there is much controversy on this website over what the term “oldfag” refers to, I’ll provide a quick definition for those not in the know: Oldfaggots are people who, usually out of some combination of nostalgia (real or imagined), stubbornness, and/or cynicism, are predisposed to liking bands by virtue of being old, while at the same time being incredulous and/or dismissive of any music happening in the immediate present. In this post, I would like to take a look at the confusing and annoying phenomena of oldfaggotry within hardcore, in which young kids who are initially drawn to youthful, energetic music somehow resultantly end up acting like ornery 45 year olds with intensely sensitive anuses. We’ll start with an overview of oldfaggotry within hardcore, and at the end of the post, I’ll show you examples of how the internet has enabled (and will continue to enable) oldfaggotry to continue on, stronger than ever before!
PART 1: A Brief History Of Oldfaggotry Within Hardcore
First and foremost, one should understand that oldfaggotry is not a new trend within hardcore, and has actually existed almost as long as hardcore itself. Ancient archeological evidence suggests that the first enduring love letter of oldfaggotry written in hardcore was penned by none other than Ian McKaye, in the form of the Minor Threat song “Salad Days”:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtMhyavClS8&w=420&h=315]
This song expresses all the sentiments that are common to most latter-day hardcore oldfaggots: A rosy, sentimental look at hardcore’s past, a bitter, disdainful perspective on the present, and an odd mixture of resignation and stubbornness with respect to change (hardcore currently sucks, so what does Minor Threat do? They write another hardcore song about it – albeit with “progressive” elements [read: bell noises]). However, note that unlike today, early oldfaggotry referred back to a much shorter span of time by the virtue of hardcore not having actually existed for very long. While current oldfaggotry requires an incubation period of at least a decade and a half to two decades before something old can be considered cool, Ian McKaye was referring to a era of hardcore that existed just a couple of years before.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt-mBotN-e8&w=420&h=315]
While I’d hesitate to say Mike Judge makes the old days of hardcore sound particularly cool (lol wearing chain belts and construction gloves), he definitely seems to be of the opinion that ‘kids these days just don’t have the spirit they used to’. Note that the nostalgia gap has widened slightly from “Salad Days” (this song celebrates a time six years prior, versus “Salad Days” 2-3), and that Mike Judge attributes much of the present-day degeneration of hardcore to posers (which is a very common trope amongst oldfags today). As proof that nostalgia/pseudo-nostalgia are all relative, the period which Judge bitches about in this song (the late 80s) is considered to be ‘a rly amazing time for hardcore’ by many starry-eyed little kids and assorted tumblrfags today!
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOXeHRzZ-G8&w=420&h=315]
Start again at exactly which point? The point at which liking hardcore meant that you had to roll the dice on some album based on a review written by some retard in Maximumrocknroll , or the point when going to shows meant being packed like sardines into some tiny rented hall/shack/basement because no club owners wanted to risk housing a bunch of malcontents at their venue? Personally, I feel lucky and blessed to have be born in an age where liking hardcore doesn’t mean you have to go to shows in some dank cellar unless you really want to. In any event, the sentiment of this song – which came out roughly twenty years after “Salad Days” – is essentially the same, with one critical difference: While both McKaye and Bane frontman Arron “Gargoyle” Beddard agree that ‘stuff was really moar meaningful back in the day’, McKaye’s ultimate reaction to current day hardcore is resignation (via forming Embrace/Fugazi), whereas Gargoyle seeks to restore hardcore’s integrity though revival. In the age of armies of tumblrfags heaping praise on “classic hardcore”, and starting bands with an inherently anachronistic sound (see: neo-powerviolence), it’s pretty clear which sentiment has won out in the latter day.
Part 2: The Present and Future of Oldfaggotry
If dinosaur rock is your thing, then you are in luck! Fossil acquisition has never been easier than it is today. The advent of music blogs, YouTube, and the like have made it easier for oldfags to oldfag harder than ever before, and the result of seemingly every microscopic, insignificant, odd, obscure, or generally unpopular band now finding a home on the internet has resulted in the interesting phenomenon of the nostalgia gap becoming amplified in the late 2000s/2010s. Where once the nostalgia gap on coolness/tr00ness went from a couple of years to a couple of decades, the immediate availability of even older, lesser known music has caused certain advanced-level oldfags to become even more indulgent in their branding of “hardcore innovators”. Resultantly, bands who clearly have absolutely nothing to do with hardcore are suddenly being hailed with writing “proto hardcore” songs. Below are some notable examples:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVKANtcUqAs&w=420&h=315]
Although unknown for the better part of 25 years, The Middle Class became branded as “the first hardcore band” by teenagers on the internet when Steven Blush mentioned them as having possibly released the first hardcore EP in his book American Hardcore (an essential text in the rise of recordcollectercore and oldfaggotry in the early 2000s). Back when the band existed in the late 70s, they were just another of many Orange County punk bands playing around, but years later, they are rechristened godfathers of a genre they both predated and never cared about in the first place.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTX1v_pJt5E&w=420&h=315]
Then you have the sad lot that is the garage rock subculture – people who are mostly over the age of 33 that talk about how they are WiLd ROCKnROLL ANIMALS on the internet, when in reality they are often bearded men with receding hairlines blathering on about their record collections and how music stopped being good four decades ago. A minority of people exist who consider this to be the very first hardcore song – written all the way back in 1966 by a little-known Texan group called The Zakary Thaks. Needless to say, this song is more of a fast anomaly than anything (the band in question never wrote another song similar to this one), but when archnerds are looking to win obscurity pissing contests, this name will still come up.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0P1tMztQME&w=420&h=315]
An even smaller minority of people exist who consider Sound Of Imker to have written the first hardcore riff back in 1969. Not quite sure if/how the people who originally put time into finding this irrelevant relic and arguing this claim manage to find people to have sex with them, but I’m open to the possibility that it may have happened once.
As we are living in the decade of tr00ness, and being old is equated with having credibility, we can only expect to see oldfaggotry continue expanding exponentially in both directions as the 2010s continue on. As somewhat newer bands like Hatebreed and Terror finally become acceptable for jaded alternative young people to like, others will continue to look further and further back for bands/genres/trends to jock within hardcore (which is already evident by the ever-increasing number of 50s dad haircuts at metalcore shows). Ironically enough, if you are into thinking that anything old is awesome, the present is actually a really great time to be alive!
Conclusion/Discussion
Oldfaggotry within hardcore is very far from a new phenomenon, but it is entirely possible that anthropologists may someday call the early 2010s “The Golden Age of Oldfaggotry”. Novel developments in technology and communications are making old music/trends more accessible than ever before, and the “tr00ness factor” – which rewards pretentiousness and overindulgence in nostalgia – is giving oldfags freer reign than ever to explore their proclivities. What remains to be seen is how far oldfaggotry in this decade will go (since Defeater has cornered the market for 50’s imagery, how long will it take before a hardcore starts singing about the ‘trials of The Great Depression’?), and whether or not oldfaggotry will return exclusively to the domain of unpopular nerds in the next decade.
Some discussion questions: Are you, or were you ever an oldfag? Which of the dinosaur bands that I posted above “rly invented hardcore”? Is there a sadder, more disillusioned subgenre than garage rock? What are your favorite oldfag bands, and which bands ‘rly piss you off, because they swapped all of their shit’ from your favorite oldfag bands? Are you using an unconventional hair style to mask an ever-increasing bald spot?
OH man, I read that whole thing. All of it. Then I thought, what if he made all this up like that Hardcore History shit? I’ll never know via being born in the 90′s and not caring about any music before like 2008.
This. This is what happens when you get Tumblr Famous™ for trolling fggts: nobody can ever take you seriously.
this may be true, but rly, doesn’t all history concern the continual endeavor of reshaping and recontextualizing direct sources as a means of constructing a narrative of the past we can understand n relate to??? idk, not trying to towards relativism or w/e, but just saying!!!
PWNED that n00b!
Caring about bands before 2008 either makes you old or gay. Whatevs.
I completely back this, although I am guilty of liking some old bands. But srs, the vast majority of music from before 2007 or so sounds like shit to me.
but sarg everyone lieks teh beatles
don’t forget led zepalin or aykay-deesee
those dinosaur rockers were da shit back when music was all aboot passion n rockin’ out brah!!!
Oldfaggotry is what got me into hardcore. The Void split was the first hardcore record I heard. Still one of my fav bands.
Same, and to be sure, I genuinely like all of the songs I posted above (with the exception of Sound Of Imker, which is ghey moustache rock for senior citizens). And that Void split is sick! It’s cool to see them finally starting to get some props.
great post. you sound like a recovering oldfag…me too. it’s funny when you realize that guys who seemed “rly knowledgeable” about music are fucking idiots and losers.
there are so many “FIRST PUNK BANDS” and “FIRST HARDCORE BANDS” and it’s always wrong and usually terrible.
Thank you! And yes, you are most certainly correct about my being a recovering oldfaggot (it’s impossible to be aware of some of this stuff unless you have direct experience with the subcultures/types of personalities that celebrate it). At the end of the day, oldfaggotry is a lot like vegetarianism and straight edge within hardcore – there’s nothing inherently wrong with being into it, but all too many people use their “expertise of the classics” (or whatever interest they assign as the dominant trait in their identity) as an excuse to beat people over the head with their excessively strong beliefs/opinions.
whatever interest they assign as the dominant trait in their identity
boom
As far as I’m concerned, and I’m not, Hatebreed was the first Hardcore band. Everything before is punk and everything after is for posers.
Quality post, would rep if possible.
BACKED TARD. Also straight-edge didn’t exist pre-Firestorm.
90s METALFAGGOT ALERT
I started ironically loving that Bane song back when it came out via they toured too much, and had to see them play it a lot. but now I non-ironically think it’s fun and awesome. Also, BAAAAAANE!
+1
…and i was sure that this is about DYS recent songs.
best non-D post evar. keep it up, Brons. (no homilz)
Lovin’ it, McDonald’s style.
*bah-dah-dahdah-dah*
Haha, I actually dig the Sound of Imker via being into 60′s music and they way these dudes can barely play their instruments without sounding shitty, like that Middle Class song. People actually like that shit? I was playing it when my roommate walked into the room and asked me if I actually liked the song. A conversation about how much hardcore music usually sucks ensued.
And yeah, I used to be a 15 year old oldfggt who “rlly knew a lot about REAL music.” Embarrassing. Don’t get me wrong, I still LOVE nerding out to music and talking about old obscure bands but at the very least I’m not a pretentious fggt about it. Surprisingly, many people react positively when you say you like 60′s music and then casually, semi-enthusiastically explain how it’s rlly neat to hear the old sounds in modern music that most people are familiar with, like, say, The Shins. If you do it right, you can have a pleasant conversation about how chill music is and how awesome it is to be living in a decade where old music is reinnovated without ever taking any of the shit you’re saying srsly.
Tl;dr even being into old shit normal people dgaf about can be accepted if you don’t have your head stuck in your anus and you think you’re “rlly speshul” b/c you dug up some old, shitty sounding record nobody else knows about.
thanks bro for introducing me to old old Oldfaggotry bands.
post backfire :(
opps
It’s like those D.A.R.E. anti-drug programs they had in schools back in the 90′s that were supposed to make drugs sound dangerous/scummy but fascinated everyone to the point of wanting to try them.
I am consistently ahead of the curve. I was an oldfag/tr00fag back when scene and fun things were prominent and now idgaf about music and just want to have fun and every alt bro thinks the opposite way
scene and fun were never part of hardcore, and they never will be.
I call this “The Curse of The Mid 80s”: People who were born between 1984 – 1989 who were old enough to be aware the the last “fun” era (the 2000s), but because of some form of butthurt, were not in a position to enjoy it at the time, only to realize the error of their ways as trends shifted back towards “unfun” again. I pretty much lived in the epicenter of scene as it was blowing up in the early 2000s (Orange County, CA), but I was too busy fapping to Minor Threat and Effigies recordings to fully appreciate it at the time. Now I’m far away from there, that shit is over, and the best I can do to repent is catch C!NCC every time they come through my state. Brb starting post-scene themed regretcore band :(
this is my life too bro, it feels bad man. :(
thank you!! cept i loved the scene shit via having a backyard drunken dance party every weekend in east los during thee HS years (early to mid 00s) to go to…
ahh oldfagging right now about the helicopters raiding the party and when the pigs showed up, every drunken teenager in the lot would sing “happy birthday” to simulate an actual bday party so they can (hopefully) leave lol… stupid deejays lugging their primitive sony vaios w/ stickers of ironic sayings on em, using myspace to communicate the next party thru mofuckin’ sidekix to go to since we still actually went out of our homes back then, getting drunk off 40s of cheap bum beer piss, and hot scene bishes that came from all over so cal for the mad packed party scene in east los… ahh good times
goddamnit… i must now go get detoxified of oldfaggotry =/…..
only other genre i get oldfaggy about is new-metal…
dat feeling when u get a boner for drop z tuning and want to “jump”.jpg
Would read a post elaborating on more of such stories/10
oddly enough, nu metal was the big scene that was around when I was in high school. I was way too oldfaggy even back then to enjoy any of that business. Shoulda just bought some jncos and had a blast while it was still cool to jam songs like “nookie” and “chop suey” and have a band that sounded like the deftones
Yeah, I think I had this like 50%. Actually, I think I have NFC genes about 50% in general. Basically, I loved Minor Threat/Dead Kennedy’s via skateboarding, but liked 18v/chainreactioncore too. Kinda thought the two were separate neat things though, I wasn’t about the old band>new band.
This post is great! :)
Great post dude!
But what’s sader than true oldphags are young people like me wheren’t even born when the obscure records they’re jocking were put out. ie : my EXTENSIVE knowledge of 80′s japanese noise core or finnish crust punk. Just writing that made me cringe irl… ohgodwhy.jpg
I guess I did that to have my own special way to be cool? Idk
Hello, my name is Klem and I’m a recovering young oldphag
lolol…excellent point, young oldphag!
As as oldFggt who wuz in bands during 90′s, I get a lot of this from my nephew’s friends that are blooming, jr. OldFggts. Tell me they wish they went to the old Bane shows….get :( when I tell them that I didn’t even listen to hardcore after 80′s & never liked Bane (or converge…(srs)).
At the same time, I got oldFag buddies that never left the trOOness of the scene. Still tell me to come by their shows at the local VFW….and afterwards come by the pad and “Check out da mad binders filled wit da Sweet Flyers from back in da day!!!” Anytime I go, it just makes me kind of sad….like seeing the polar bear sweating at the LA zoo with grass stains on his ass :(. But some of them are really good/cheap at drywalling/AC repair….so gotta keep up with da bros! :D
I used to have a shoebox of 90s hardcore flyers that would probably make youngoldfags green with envy, but then I threw them away because hey, what the fuck do I need a bunch of old flyers for?
Going through the binders was like sitting with a artist (“wanna peruse my portfolio”)….kinda like an exagerrated oldFggt b9 thread that you couldn’t close and look at porn instead. “Bro, remember dat show…dat wuz the shit!”
And yeah, I still got a bunch of cassettes/vinyl that I still have boxed…nothing to play it on….they need a oldFggt Recycling/drop-off center.
brb, writing up new history show, OldFggt Pawn Stars. ala ->”I wouldn’t even be comfortable giving you an offer on this….listen, I got a buddy that knows everything there is to know about oldFggt black metal. I’ll give him a call and we can see what this Venom signed wrist spike is really worth”
Backing the old folks pawn stars idea. That, or an Antiques Roadshow-type thing.
“I’m sorry, sir. This Project X seven inch is the Lost and Found German bootleg press, not the original on Schism.”
What was the deal with Lost and Found anyways? Just some pre-internet Wild West European bootleg factory?
Could have sold that box of flyers on eBay to a tr00bonic plague victim for like $200 (srs)
Taking stupid people’s money = never not awesome
Srs bro, I was gonna suggest it. Poor financial decision there! + hopefully a few hours after receiving it it’d hit him that he was being a massive fggt and just spent $200 on some shit no one cares about. He will then cry, realize his life has been based around fggtry and then sell the posters to the next victim, creating a change for the good!
this!!
can’t wait till my nephew is done w/ my SNES n all da games so he gives em back to me so i can make a killing on ebay hehe
I recall a post of yours saying that you threw out all of your old cd’s, too. This is making me consider throwing out everything too, not because I want to but because it seems like I’ll get to your point inevitably….
Hanx! On a srs note, I think one of the more unfortunate things about really adamant strains of oldfaggotry is that it can kind of rob kids of their youth. I think about all of the sweet ass bands I could’ve seen if only I let myself like it at the time, instead of being hung up on stupid shit like who did what first. Old oldfags may be annoying, but at least they had their own time, and in later stages stubbornly cling to it. Young oldfags spend too much time preoccupied on another generation’s music, and in effect end up missing out on their own.
But re: liking music that came out before you are born – you are in a safe place. 1st generation power pop is one my favorite kinds of music :(
Great post dude! Oldfaggotry is pretty annoying because of how stupid and how much of a thinly veiled pissing contest it is. My background is in black metal, and there are a million dudes who do the exact same thing- obsess over obscure European bands from the early/mid 90s that no one gave two shits about (mostly because they were just worse versions of the bands that were more popular) when they existed but have become pioneers because of how old they are.
I think an interesting way to test this is to consider the bands that released albums a few years ago that you were into at the time but no longer listen to at all. Are people going to think of them as pioneers in 10 years even though they were forgotten after their hype died away? Probably. I think a lot of the oldfaggotry is over these bands, the 2nd tier ones that people stopped listening to once they realized they were worse versions of already existing bands but have now become cool again because they are obscure.
Finally, I think it is worth mentioning mainstream oldfags who only listen to classic rock radio and complain about any music that came out after guns n roses because of how common they are. Its understandable when someones dad just likes what they listened to as a kid, but its hilarious when it is someone my age who thinks that music peaked with led zeppelin. My stock response to led zeppelin/bob Dylan/whatever fandom is to just compare them to a pop artist of our time and say that they were just that artist of their era. E.g. If someone is harping on about led zepplin, i always say something like “do you like nickel back? Because led zepplin were basically the nickelback of their era.”
led zepplin were basically the nickelback of their era
*black smokes begins to pour from the musicfag’s ears*
lolol so fucking true though. Super popular, despised by critics, bad attempts at playing other genres, Led Zep was essentially lulzy white kidz trying to play the music of dah negroes and Nickelback is just a “bad” imitation of Nirvana-Bush grunge.
I guess you can say LZ has more variety but then we can always point out that the variety includes songs about LotR, so case closed IMO!
Cannot understand Classic Rock douches that have literally been listening to the same ten albums for 30 years. Fucking shoot me.
Firstly, thanks! Secondly: The interesting thing about classic rock fags vs. hardcore oldfags is that they both essentially justify the same elitist sentiments from opposite angles: Classic rock dweebs essentially agree to like certain bands because they were old and highly popular, whereas hardcore oldfags are more predisposed to liking certain bands because they are old and often unpopular. Exceptions apply on both sides of the fence, but the end result is still essentially the same douchebaggery!
About time someone called out the classic rock oldfags. A+
When I say I like old school hardcore I mean Hatebreed, terror, and comeback kid. I was born in 92 soooo. If I was born in 82 I would’ve been into skate punk and nu-metal in the late 90s via hardcore sucking until 2001 or 2. Come at me with the butthurt bros
i’ll fully admit to being a 20-something into old hardcore, but since i’m a sensible human being i don’t like the bands i do because they’re old and i dig plenty of new stuff too. albeit some of this new stuff isn’t totally original, but i kinda feel one of the worst offenders for “retro-hardcore” is off!, a band ironically enough actually made of oldfags (‘compared to what’ is a nice little 7″ doe).
as for garage rock i’ve pretty much never bothered getting into the old stuff, but the new stuff like WAVVVES and KING TUFF is fine in my books; maybe too many songs about weed but at least the music is fun.
imo Off! isn’t so much a retro hardcore as they are a new hardcore band composed of older dudes playing straight-up L.A. style hardcore. That style hasn’t really caught on in the rest of the country, but L.A. and Orange County have very distinct takes on hardcore which have stayed fairly consistent and self-contained since people started playing it in the late 70s and early 80s. I think Off! gets tagged as an “old school” style band because of their personnel and the fact that they are the highest profile band of their kind, but Southern California has always bred bands that borrowed heavily from The Germs, Adolescents, etc. My point is that Off’s sound (to me, anyway) seems like more of a product of trying to play a specific regional style rather than trying to revive an “old sound” (as it never went away in CA).
I sort of hate Off! because I hate old stuff in general, but I agree with this characterization of them and also re: the 80s Southern California hc style. Honestly I think it’s kind of hilarious and embarrassing that the rest of the country isn’t catching onto it until THIRTY FUCKING YEARS after it is was in its prime– another example of how forward-thinking and ahead of the curve Southern California is.
yeah, good point on how being a “retro” band requires that sort of “revival” mindset/situation. i guess all i had in mind was that off! is still a band that’s playing a style of music (including the lyrics and artwork) that hasn’t changed and with no intention to change, and knowing keith morris probably with some antagonism towards “the way hardcore has changed”. say what you will about how much new stuff like icoulddietomorrowcore bites on the sound of old hardcore bands, but at least they seem to try and go forward with their own spin on it.
I remember I went through a brief 90s phase where I was obsessed with grunge, Metallica, and sublime(I.e fapping over bands that had broken up/past their prime years before I truly got into them) however in 2008 my buddy showed me metalcore and my life has been a constant obsession with it ever since. I like many SYWH readers look back upon 2008 with fond memories. I miss those days. So much fun music
“[read: bell noises]” -> lololol giggles <3
Zachary Thacks didn’t sound like hardcore, but it did sound like fast shit-kicking 60s garage rock. I imagine playing Louie Louie at double speed would have a similar effect. Don’t know if you wanted people to hate it but I thought it was cool as shit and would totally dig seeing a bunch of curvy 60s era Playboy bunnies shaking their buttery asses to it.
Well, it does have that “snare-kick-snare-kick” beat that became very popular in 80s hardcore, and with some more distortion I don’t think that riff would sound too out of place on an 80s hc song either. As I mentioned above, I genuinely like almost everything I posted above, and “Bad Girl” is actually one of my all time favorite garage songs (amongst the embarrassingly huge amount of music I have in this genre). I was more just ribbing on the awful culture that surrounds garage rock (which is embarrassing and out-of-touch enough to give Rockabilly a run for its money), and the doofuses that try to force a band they like into a history of music that the said band has nothing to do with.
It could also literally be a sped up Bo Diddley or Johnny Otis song.
I never got too deep into garage rock subculture outside of liking some of the revival bands. The funny part is that my mom grew up with Iggy Pop. Embarassing shit will continue to happen as long as people consider the music they like a “community” or a “culture” or anything more relevant than entertainment.
I know you don’t care about this faggoty bullshit but I emplore you to consider writing a music post. your insight is too powerful.
Also, nice post Bronson! This oldfag music means absolutely nothing to me, but I totally “get what it’s all about”. Mairun your wealth of knowledge.
Thanks man, I appreciate it. I’m not really into trying to influence anybody though. Plus I don’t think I can fake the glibness that seems to be a pre-requisite for expressing oneself on the internet.
Great post man, interesting stuff. Can’t say I like any of the music to much (via being born in 1986 and I love social interactions), but it’s great to know why people keep reblogging alot of ‘minor threat’ and ‘bane’ related stuff! Thanx!!
I love (and jock) old shit, however, i know it sucks both musically and production wise. Seriously black flag recorded in what could be a trash container bitching about shit and not partying vs. clean as fuck alea jacta est jumping around with pool toys, the choice is easy.
What’s not to love about youtube, bandcamp etc.? The 80′s and their limited 7″s can suck it.
Alea jacta es minus the fggt-French soundbites would be awesome, I even emailed them about it “Look dudes, just ‘cuz u guys speak that “language” doesn’t mean anybody else wants to hear it, you’re welcome, in advance”.
I don’t get it, does liking or not liking genres only apply if you’re trying to get laid? I guess that’s the nice thing about being married — you can indulge in pretty much whatever nerdy shit you want without fear of being judged as “uncool” or whatever
Of course you can like or not like whatever however much you want to, and nice, wifable girls will suffer your dorkiness if you give them enough reasons to. However, if your starting game-plan involves talking about how important Antidote’s “Thou Shalt Not Kill” 7″ was in the development of NYHC, you are doing it very wrong.
very true. I think the best way to go is to have the music nerd level set at “hey I went to the record store and bought some records, isn’t record shopping fun?” and go from there. However, I think this might only work with the more hipstery ladies (like my lovely wife), and you have to prepare to listen to a lot of stuff like Patti Smith or Devendra Banhart.
As a genuine (non-nostalgic) oldfag, I approve this post.
as a genuine (nostalgic) oldfag, I still approve of this post…
;-D
Brb, working on ur time-macheen (don’t worry it’s a Chevy El-Camibro), so u can travel back to 1984 & do EXACTLY THE SAME STUFF U CAN DO NOW.
Fantastic post.
One of the most baffling things to me is why people have such a hard time liking both new AND old stuff, especially the people who have been around. I can’t blame modern 16 year olds for not liking Minor Threat (or even Bane) because of the shitty recordings and lack of context, but it’s really not hard to love old classics AND new shit. Same with video games, I love my SNES/Genesis emulators but new games are pretty sweet too (overall better, imo).
Laughed so hard @ Aaaron “gargoyle” Bedartdt.
IMO this post is lacking the most absolutely crucial oldfag song ever: Alone In a Crowd’s “Is anybody there?”
Also LMAO @ Depressoncore.
Trash Talk may already be onto this via their “East of Eden” EP being about John Steinbeck’s book (not srs)
As we are living in the decade of tr00ness, and being old is equated with having credibility
Except that real oldfags have a lot more disappointing stories talking about how stuff was actually not as good/different in some crucial way, i.e. Sarge’s post on the ugly truth of 90′s hardcore.
“Is Anybody There” is srs a fucking great song, and I think it’s amazing/hilarious that SYWH bro Lars Weiss was in that band.
Yes, this was a great hardcore band and that was their iconic song, but does in fact fit this post perfectly.
Also, all these songs are great imo, but are also oldfaggy.
I actually honestly interpret “Can We Start Again” to be in with the same theme as SYWH: liking shit just for liking it and enjoying music scenes, rather than strategically liking/disliking bands with pretentious social motives.
honestly i dont care about punk/hardcore “founders” anymore,as long i realized everything is relevant to the era/politics and personal bullshit going on which is the main point in music – takin out and vent a particular state of mind and stuff….And i still think that hardcore was a reaction to all the sillyness that punk rock puked out in the 70s becoming the so much hated mainstream rock that was trying to destroy in the first place(Ramones were better than the pretentious riot music comin out of UK)In the late 70s punk morphed into hardcore,that basically is music for oucasts,scumbags,and people that generally dont fit with da system n shit…That said,trendwhores and hipsters were there even in the 80/90s (although probably they were few,gettin in hardcore now is a mere question of bitrate and access to the internet while back then…oldfggtrant.wav)
I generally despise the so called punks as much as i despise the nowdays rich suburban hardcore kids – theres no difference between them and the average metalhead,and its just a phase for them,they will continue just to do the special snowflake of the case as long as they can fuck whores and have dope.
Also,as said by the might Paul(SHEER FUCKIN TERROR) Bearer in some interview “punk was cool cos everyone wants to be the bad guy that you see in cartoons and such,then things become more real..” and such statements .. not sure were i read it? there was a Stickman/fury of V interview as well and it was the drawing line between the Jaded Dude Oldudecore that warm up my lower middle class heart ;( / Metalhead turned generic hardcore thug guy)
That said Punk Rock = music for oldfaggots,DEAD.
Harcore = music for jaded assholes/people who dont fit anywhere trying to make a point out in their life…ALMOST DEAD due to many things im not willing to write up but anyone can do his own guessing.
Jerry A form Poison Idea said it best “I dont have money to go see a psychiatrist,so i scream in the mic and do crazy stuff,thats my therapy” word.And now let me go back singing and throwing money down the drain in my scummy DIY hardcore band…
That said Punk Rock = music for oldfaggots,DEAD.
Harcore = music for jaded assholes/people who dont fit anywhere trying to make a point out in their life…ALMOST DEAD due to many things im not willing to write up but anyone can do his own guessing.
I was kind of shocked to find that I agree with this 100%
awww u make me blush LOL
Harcore = music for jaded assholes/people who dont fit anywhere trying to make a point out in their life…ALMOST DEAD due to many things im not willing to write up but anyone can do his own guessing.
Would read a long, detailed post elaborating things you aren’t willing to write up/10
Would go to another site/forum or read an email if Sarge things this is out of SYWH’s scope/10
would do that /10 bro,its just bout the sarge approvation and some other shit .I’d love to.
Do it plz. Maybe you can just write it up in the forums?
I can see why it might get vetoed since this subject isn’t exactly as “fun” as the others are supposed to be, but who cares he said he agreed with you lets leverage this against him if he vetoes!!!!!
We just have to somehow make sure it doesn’t lead to more tr00ness
“We just have to somehow make sure it doesn’t lead to more tr00ness”
Thats the problem my kitteh ,everything is subjective and every shitty hardcore juggalo can came up here and literally build up his own credential on some “internet authority” in the internet,but who cares,those kids doesnt lasts anyway.BTW Its also not an easy topic cos theres so many things to point out,i guess i cant try to say it but keep in mind,its ju
st my opinion on the current state of things.And other things that piss me off but wtv im for the easyway so i’ll try my best to keep the lolz coming talking nonsense and non-ironic bullshit over alot of stuff.
I’d like to do some other post on the whole OLDUDECORE (= see the definition of hardcore up there,plus,using the modern productions and doing their tunes whitout robbing too much – current bands playing hard and mean straight hardcore who dont give a shite bout scenetrends etcetera) VS RETROCORE (= oldfaggtscore,people literally robbing from the past trying to revive it mocking productionwise,soundwise,lookwise,attitudewise the worst aspects both cnscsly and uncnscsly )
its just that i dont know how to put da vision in the forumz…speak sum wisdom bros pleaz :( ?
Sarge dear,wut u think?
ps – gonna do it anyway
Siq glad to hear that.
current bands playing hard and mean straight hardcore who dont give a shite bout scenetrends etcetera
This has always been my definition of hardcore. IMO this doesn’t encompass any specific sound/style (not sure if thats what you meant), but rather more of an attitude. In other words, The Acacia Strain is a hardcore band not because of their songs/arrangements, but because they sound genuinely pissed off. Same could be said of Terror, etc.
BTW Its also not an easy topic cos theres so many things to point out
Anyways looking forward to your post.
‘k, gonna post it tonight,shitsa gonna roll! Will place the link here asap
dooone! its now posted as “WUT IZ HARDCOAR in 2012? a oldude rant” in the forum,have a good read and a laugh
The history of recorded music begins and ends with Brokencyde. Srs.
I guess i’m an oldfag. haha
I first got into going to shows and stuff when metalcore was at it’s peak (2005/2006) and the local hardcore bands were always just more fun to me. Later in my area, hardcore prety much died, and metalcore/deathcore became the only thing kids care about (the lower mid-west is a bit behind the curve on everything), I just got really bored with everything that was going on at the time. Metalcore didn’t really seem to have a point, and the older bands always seemed like they actually had something to say, and played music that wasn’t based solely on what kind of gear you had and how low you could tune your guitar. Not saying that metalcore is bad, it just wasn’t appealing to me.
The one thing i’m confused about, is what of the large number of current bands Drawing heavy influences from older bands today? Listen to any band on React! records, anything hyped out of current Boston straight edge (boston strangler, No tolerance, ect) or any of the current youth crew bands that are killing it right now that aren’t on youth crew specific labels, (focused minds, free spirit, face reality, united youth, ect…) and you can hear direct influence from bands like Youth of today, Judge, and the whole 88 youth crew sound and 80′s boston not LA. comp sound pretty clearly.
Are these bands old fag bands?
Or are they OK because they draw out a ton of kids every time they play somewhere?
any band on React! records
lol that is my friend’s label, my azn is friends with some of their bands too
Although technically, these are contemporary bands, I tend to file them under the “oldfag” umbrella based on the fact that a lot of them conscientiously try to do nothing but ape old bands as close as humanly possible. I’m not saying you have to be wild and experimental, and of course what you like will inevitably inform the music you make, but from what I’ve heard of those bands (which is admittedly not a lot), the idea is all about ‘bringing it back to what it used to be like’, which is inherently an oldfag sentiment. In other words, when your band seeks nothing more than to emulate your idea of what the past was like, you are playing in an oldfag band.
also any band on Youth Attack records (Hoax are sweet btw,kinda like Neglect jamming on negative approach tunes)….Sarge wut abaout a post on Charles Bronson? the dude singing is basically a goldmine of hardcore trolling ..
“In other words, when your band seeks nothing more than to emulate your idea of what the past was like, you are playing in an oldfag band” BANG,probably these bands dont realize the fact that the present is way worse than the 80s in some ways and trying to beef up their credentials doing zany 80s style lyrics (see Boston Strangler) just add some more shittiness to this era. Theres so many reasons to be angry and stuff those days,why the fuck doing a cover band of a certain other suckass band we had before??
I DEMAND A POST ON RETROCORE vs OLDUDECORE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlHO7OEzHQk
the first screamos
I love Bunker Hill. Wish he had more stuff that was easy to get :’(
I basically am only intrested in music that was released on satans pimp records. If that makes me an old fag so be it.
“I guess i’m an oldfag. haha
I first got into going to shows and stuff when metalcore was at it’s peak (2005/2006) ”
LOLZ @ calling yourself old when you started going to shows 6-7 years ago! It’s all relative I suppose.
Meh, my first show was in 2001 and by hardcore standards I’d consider you pretty old. Ancient civilizational remnants such as Sarge are outliers, so I wouldn’t compare them in the overall scheme
Whoops I think I confused myself with your comment.
/disregard