I had this idea sitting in my brain box for a hot minute, but then SYWH writer/hilarious dude, jorbam, wrote the SYWH/Louie Guide to Dating Indie Girls, and I felt compelled to finish out my thoughts on the matter (re: stop being a lazy brown dude).
The theory of pop culture being cyclical can pretty much apply to everyday life. Tumblr is a great example of how very little peoples’ attitudes have changed over the years. There’s not much that distinguishes it from Makeout Club, Only Undies Club, Livejournal, or some random Geocities/Angelfire pages. Tumblr has been an easy way for me to post songs from Spotify and find other dorks who are seeking out the Billy Ripkin Fuckface card, however, it’s also been a good reminder that when it comes to punx girls, the best way to approach them is not at all.
["I was born in the wrong decade"]
Let me start this by saying that I’ve dated (or, in one case, married) my share of punx and the story always ends the same: they’ll move on to some other band dude and will take your record collection. Also, we’re at an age that if someone is still classifying themselves, be it “punx,” “emos,” “edge,” or “whateverthefuck,” then chances are, they’re probably a douche. Still, I bet all y’all are going to fuck punx (dudes and ladies) anyway, so let me at least help you cushion the blow a bit (pause) by showing what you’re in for:
Crust Punx
[That beer looks Photoshopped. Also crusties won't pay for that shit]
Smelly, perpetually drunk and/or high, and have a penchant for patches and studs on EVERYTHING. They’re pretty good for engaging with in loud mouth politics and dumpster diving behind Dunkin’ Donuts, but that shit gets old super fast. There are only so many times that you’ll want to sleep on the floor of a warehouse that they’re squatting in. If you have a job, it’s even worse because they’ll openly criticize you having one, while simultaneously having to pick up the check for shit you can’t find in a dumpster.
Cornerstone topics: Crass, vegan bakeries, anti-Reagan songs, hitchhiking
Liberal Arts Punx
[No, I don't want to hear your sexpositive noisecore band. Do I ask you if you want to stick your face near the muffler of my car?]
Do you like every release from No Idea and K Records? Have a Bikini Kill tattoo? Then you’ll love these people! Made up entirely of 19-21 year old kids who are still in college who swear by the works of Bukowski and Rollins. Many of these kids will continue this habit well into their late-20s, when they turn to chunky balding bearded dudes who agree with pro white feminist rhetoric, solely for the purpose of banging those who subscribe to that. They often will deride anyone and everyone who has a differing opinion, while loudly stating (in all caps) that they have the right to free speech. They typically have a cause that is anchored by gender or class issues, but refuse to believe that non-whites exist. Usually closet racists who ironically love M.I.A. Basically, proto-hipsters in training.
Cornerstone topics: Latterman, the works of Kathleen Hanna and Calvin Johnson, not shaving your pits, period sex, dudes with beards, online punx comix, Twin Peaks
Mall Punks
[U jelly? Prolly]
They buy records at Hot Topic and shop at the Gap. By and large they’re harmless. If you’re a real stickler about correcting people when they call “Take This to Your Grave” Fall Out Boy’s first album, then you might hate them. But whatever, as you get older, these people seem more attractive because they really could give two shits that you have an OG pressing of Earth Crisis’s cassette demo. They will generally agree about your distaste for the lack of breakdowns in Four Year Strong’s last record and love A Day to Remember as much as you, but just be prepared to hear lots of stuff by the Wonder Years, Set Your Goals, and Tigers Jaw.
Cornerstone topics: Sales at H&M and Urban Outfitters, jokes about Cartel, New Found Glory still being awesome, Absolutepunk, Easycore
Emo Punx
[Basically all of Tumblr, yet I find that a pic of Chris Carrabba is always relevant given the subject matter of all things emotional]
A hybrid of Liberal Arts Punx and Mall Punks, Emo Punx is what happens when kids who started with Drive Thru graduate to Polyvinyl. Because of the crossover, the majority of their current playlists are made of up srscore/nu-Risecore/tr00 bands like Seahaven, Gaslight Anthem, and Allison Weiss, but they are also prone to wax romantic about the heyday of old Taking Back Sunday, Brand New, Starting Line, and Matchbook Romance. For the most part, they’re pretty fun to hang out with when talking about old shit, but once they get drunk and start talking about a crop of new bands that all sort of sound the same, or show off their “meaningful 2 meeehhhh” Lifetime tattoo. They will also be dismissive (but secretly be jealous) of when you talk about seeing the Promise Ring and Superchunk play some crappy hippie festival in 2001.
Cornerstone topics: 90s bands, karaoke, Bob Dylan, recalling basement shows (despite never having been to one), Freaks and Geeks
Do you like dating punx? Why do Liberal Arts Punx let you PIITB when Mall Punks won’t? Does this list (and having a gf) prevent me from asking Ramsey Beyer out on a date? Is a Burning Angel video just liek real lyf?
The most depressing part is if you manage to stay in contact with a crust punk well into your adult life, or are able to witness your dad’s crust friend from high school in his adult life. They almost always end up as unemployed couch surfers with huuuge chips on their shoulder because their lives dedicated to stickin’ it to the man have gotten them literally nowhere in life. They then find that they’re 40 and have nothing except for all of their memories of growing up, but INSIST on wearing their studded leather jacket everywhere. Makes me want to suiside myself. :(
Don’t talk about me like I’m not even in the room, MAAAN!!
The movie SLC punk is essentially a crusty realizing this right before he turns into a lifer. It’s also a really good movie and would highly recommend it. His revelation is very SYWHish
so does the fact you cant spell suicide….
Mall punks sound pretty awesome. Def would smash. Everybody else sounds lame and groce tho :/
dat one bish on the right in the miniskirt and Uggs
8======o~~ ~
(_)_)::::::::::::::D ~ ~ ~
You forgot to mention that most liberal arts punx are polyamorous as fuck so you might only get to hang out with them when their three other partners are out of town.
Wat about seapunks?
Or Steampunks…
what, no love for cyberpunks?
No. Never.
OH DEAR GOD NO!!!
My old flatmates were a crustie couple, and when that obvious timebomb went off it was because she was cheating on him with what is best described as a “piratecore” dude. She went from being all deviated instinct and reggies to dressing like a clown, basically just latching on to whomever she was banging. My girlfriend said she saw her recently and now she is just a generic indie girl. SHOCKER.
all of my brother’s friends are in the liberal arts punx phase right now. you forgot to include that a major part of this is the “race to the bottom”, the goal being to make yourself as disgusting as possible to attract other girls.
My girlfriend said she saw her recently and now she is just a generic indie girl
I think I speak for all of us when I say that I am absolutely flabbergasted that her commitment to the most cartoonish version of an already sub-moronic genre was not lifelong!
But I think we can all agree that it’s a tragedy that it wasn’t
all my creys 4 her :’(
I would like to know more about the “race to the bottom”.
Where do I click for that?
click any liberal arts college party/slutwalk rally/rape crisis volunteer seminar. you will see more septum piercings, homemade bowl cuts + die jobs, second hand store clothes and hairy legs then you thought existed in the western world in 2012
LOL’d at that Hysterics pic.
<333
ded @ ‘No, I don’t want to hear your sexpositive noisecore band’
the grose, flabby bish in that pic is the PERFECT illustration of this bullshit, kudos #whitepplgonewild
She almost trolled me with her bro-positive sports shirt but then I realized it’s probably some meta-statement about the gender divide in contemporary athletic endeavors/post-ironic stab at the American sports-industrial complex.
The sex positive noiscore band photo=my penis is having a reverse erection and growing back inside of my body in disgust.
i think it went so far in that the tip is poking out of your butthole
That mental image makes my boner go back to normal, thx <3.
Also in my experience mallpunk girls are down to PIITB… one of the highlights of my year a while back was unlocking ‘anal on the first date’ achievement with some 19 year old who worked at the mall and listened to 3oh3 and Suiside Silence
And let you cum on their face. Srs. Mallpunk girls were the best way to spend my late teen years.
^ co-signed ♥
brb, tell my wife I’m @ da mall
Girls who grew up on guys who grew up on rape porn.
fucken ded!!!
almost embarrassed to admit, but that crust punk bish looks like the kind of girl i would of would have wanted to fuck when i was sixteen and would of been jelly over her going with the broke faggot she’s with. oh how shit changes.
wood have swooned over and WKed the fuk out of any girl with a Filth patch when i was sixteen/10
wood go and see her roller derby match/10
It’s a shame when a semi-attractive girl crusts out :( She should give up the CRASS butt flap and pick up some Christian Louboutins via selling her rare Middle-Class records that her dad bought for X-mas (even though she doesn’t believe in celebrating Judeo-Christian holidays stolen from Pagan solstice ceremonies.)
I wouldn’t relate No Idea records to liberal arts punk. I went to college in Gainesville, which is where No Idea is located. No Idea fans are pretty much fat and drunk pizza delivery drivers, who only want to hang out with their equally fat and drunk dude friends and watch The Simpsons. Either way, they are both fucking awful.
imo this may be a regional consideration. Bands like Hot Water Music and the like (ie: bands that sound like Leatherface and Jawbreaker) are definitely cool to like amongst the liberal arts/protest kid crowd elsewhere, but may not so much in Gainesville, where that kind of music is a given and thus more generally popular amongst different types of people. Similar to how in other parts of the country, a band like TSOL is considered “old school punk”, whereas when I was living in Orange County they were simply viewed as a veteran Orange County hardcore band as they were always as active as the younger bands, and the style of music they played never really went away (and thus wasn’t ‘old school’ so much as it was just normal punk/hardcore that everybody there knew about).
Good article! I am sorry to say I have fairly extensive experience with a large variety of punks, so along with those above, I’d like to mention the following:
1) Street Punx – They look and act a lot like crust punx, but are more colorful, a little more cleaner (via not caring about dumpster diving, and putting a lot of thought and consideration into their battle jackets looking perfect) and are most likely suburban teenagers that live with their parents. Although you should almost never date them, due to that in 2012, almost all of them are either a) in high school and you will be asked to have a seat over there, b) old enough to be legal, but completely fucking nuts. A lot of perfectly nice, young kids go through a street punx phase as a natural stepping stone on the way to other subcultures (I somehow skipped it, despite all the other dumb stuff I got into), but unfortunately, the street punk phase is that annoying low-point in the formation of one’s identity in which they are trying to find the loudest, most obnoxious manner in which to get people to pay attention to them. Not something you want to get involved with.
2) General rule: “if she’s got a hawk, hold your cock, if she’s got dreads, not even head.”
3) Imo the liberal arts punk thing actually usually starts a bit earlier, around the time kids are in their sophomore or junior year of high school (ages 15 – 17), and then just carries on and becomes amplified when they go to college and meet even bigger uptight fggts who they look up to/want to fuck. Otherwise, the above description is very accurate – most of their interests/outward identity lie somewhere between those of a twee pop loving cutsie indie dork, and a ‘rly socially aware’ individual who is ‘out spoken and committed to change’, while having ‘never lost their love for punk the whole time’. One detail I would add is that these people LOVE LOVE LOVE Jawbreaker, as Blake Schwartzenbach (bing! translate into non-fggt: The lead singer/guitarist of Jawbreaker) pretty much made the sort of social/personal tragectory they romanticize making themselves: Started out as a punk, became ‘rly disillusioned with all of the materialism, violence, and sexism’, and then made ‘rly powerful art’ before turning around and making a lifelong academic career out of becoming a literary critic. I have very good experience with these types because I dated a 17 year old liberal punk (I was 19 at the time, in b4 “have a seat over there”), and had many run-ins with others before I became old enough to know better. Many have severe emotional issues and quite possibly have been abused. Here are the highlights from that relationship:
A) Being forced to eat weird, chunky vegan burgers even though I had just become a vegetarian and didn’t really want to eat burgers with chunks of broccoli in it yet (or ever).
B) Being forced to drive her to Food Not Bombs and pretend to be interested in all of the stupid anarcho theorising her and her friends would espouse.
C) Driving her 6 hours to a protest on the day of my birthday, entirely on my own dime, by which point she was already bored of me and spent most of the trip criticizing me.
D) Being handed a “how to properly support rape survivors” zine when I tried putting the moves on her.
E) Her breaking up with me after 6 months over AIM, at which point she told me she was gay. She was dating some guy with indie box-rim glasses and a goatee in another 3 months.
Which band was it that had the song called “I Regret”? Anyway, to be fair, most of them are really good at baking tasty vegan treats, and will probably let you eff them on the first date (via having a “sex positive” attitude), but I hope the embarrassing details I’ve posted above will scare anybody out even considering this type, as what I have mentioned is only really the tip of iceberg.
4) Rockabilly/Psychobilly Girls: Obviously, DOUGHNUT GO THERE. Pretty much all are uniformly psychotic, rockabillies and psychobillies almost always become huge (via being a part of a subculture where consuming nothing but steak, burgers, and beer is considered normal), and many of them are severely snarky and quite likely sincerely racist. These girls were basically put on the earth for fat bald men with goatees who wear bowling shirts with flames on them and have kustom kars. If that isn’t you, save yourself some pain of mind and skip this entire subculture.
5) Hardcore Punk Girls: Girls who hang out at hardcore punk (ie: neo recordcollectorcore – not heavy “tough” hardcore) shows, and are often high-strung and over opinionated as they feel like they have something to prove to everybody (similar to lots of dudes in that scene). I’m sad 4 u if your idea of a dream girl is a mangy, malnourished girl who ‘fucking loves that Antidote 7″‘ and wears a battlejacket, but if so, this is the type to find, and you’ll probably need to be in a shitty generic Negative Approach rip-off band before they’ll consider effing you. You should act fast though, as these types will often move onto indie or garage rock within a year or two.
Sorry for the book, but obviously I’m passionate about this issue! Also, the underlying point to all of this, of course, it what everybody else already knows: It is really, really, REALLY just better to date a decent, well adjusted girl who doesn’t go out of her way to prove to the world how unique they are (whether it be through espousal of obnoxious social theories, dress, or retarded, severe attitudes about stupid stuff such as oldfag bands).
Holy shit– so many feels when reading this, it’s hard to know where to even begin!! And not sheriff I am more impressed at your incredibly detailed articulation of it all or sad 4 u because I know how many miles you put on your soul in the process of acquiring this knowledge (and those are CITY miles, not highway).
praying 4 u
xoxo
Respek, good sir.
Seconded & Turded
Longest comment Ive ever fully read. Did not regret.
WOULD RECOMMEND AGAIN A++++==++
good read! if you’ll let me add my notes to the margins, it’s probably worth elaborating a little on that last point. as you pretty much put it, i take it that the focus here and in the indie girls post is specifically on girls (and guys) who identify too strongly with their “unique” pet genre/whatever. but, going back to what i said in the “anti-buttmad” post, we all have our tastes and being into some weird music doesn’t mean you can’t be a chill, well adjusted human being. so it’s certainly not impossible to find a decent girl that’s into hardcore or whatever; one just has to be warry that she’ll be as bad as a guy who takes the shit too srsly.
and let’s not forget that seemingly normal girls can have other ways of expressing daddy issues; e.g. fucking black guys just to piss off her parents (see scott thompson in black face for more on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU1snQ7aT28 )
#just want to find a chill girl #ryan shekler
Write a full post about your adventures in women? The longest comment I’ve ever read…ever. Wood repeat. Seriously write a full post I know we’d all give it lots of views/comments/advertiser revenue.
Backed, even if its just a cut and paste of this comment!
here here!!! wood hyperlinkage/10
General rule: “if she’s got a hawk, hold your cock, if she’s got dreads, not even head.”
Boom.
‘who wear bowling shirts with flames on them’ made me lol irl
Best articulation of this issue ever. Thing is, though, you only date those girls when you’re at that time in your life when you don’t know better (or they’re you’re bestest prospects), so all ths advice will likely go to waste. At any rate, you deserve to write a book on the subject. Congratulations for a young life well-wasted.
I thought crusties were cool when I was 10 and I always chose the mohawk and plaid pants on Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater so my character could look like them.
Then I grew up.
This.
Haha…reminds me of driving w/ my mom & seeing the local, coolest crust walking w/ his girlfriend. It was trash day and he came upon a can that had a opened beer in it…picked it up and swirled to see if anything was inside, then pounded it down. I thought it was the coolest fking thing ever….then I turned 11.
These all seem pretty equally disgusting besides the smashable mall punks, but I’d rather just find a regular college chick into dubstep and hip’d hops. But if I had to, Emo > Crust > Liberal Arts. That was hard to say cause I really hate gaslight anthems.
I’m dying to see what Latinoheat has to say about all this.
I feel this way about most things in life.
Fucking died.
backed
in LV right now…. stupid hotels charge for wifi… in a starfux chillin’ from the sick ass 100+ degree heat over here….. I feel sorry for the burnt white people that live here… nothing but apartments n that look of despair and hopelessness… I imagine this is the west coast equivalent of Detroit =/
… loving da euro tourists doe… My boner got dripping wet from talking to this cute Irish chick w/ dat accent over by da pool …. <3
anyways back to this post….
- FUCKEN LOVED IT N BACKD TARD!!!! got some crusty vegan coworker that fits the crusty punk description perfectly…. fucken groce bros….
anyways wish me luck i don't go under like these gamblin' addicts up in this shit…
in b4 I sleep w/ typical vegas stripper n get herpes or I use my fafsa money to pay off the money i owe to the house =/
period sex, twin peaks
SO FUKKIN TRUE; I’m surrounded by these fggts at my school. You’ll see them in a PUNCH or CIRKEL JERKS shirt and be like, “yo, you like punk? naysayer/mongoloids/expire are comin’ here next week” and they like, “lol i don’t like m3tuhl, but CODE ORANGE KIDS are playing in a 10′x10′ garage tonight in my parents suburban house!”
fogot liberal bishes, acqueire mallpunk booty
p stoked i have no contact with people like that anymore– being around them for even like 5 minutes nowdays makes me angry for days
Feel real sorry for that bro far right on the Liberal Arts Punx. Son, pretending to enjoy Ayn Rand in hopes of hooking up with some bish with hairy bush|legs|pits (you may select up to 3 options) is no way to spend your 20′s.
Bro, liking Ayn Rand is the last thing you want to if you are looking to hook up with a Liberal Arts girl (as she is ‘important in helping libertarians find ways to justify their own privilage’ – ie: FUCKED UP). Dudes that are appealing to these sorts of girls mainly come in two forms: People who are really loud mouthed and are into doing demonstrations (via being ‘rly impassioned about their beliefs’ – basically, the equivalent of being in a band if you are an untalented, over-opinionated humanities major), or wimpy guys who verbally castrate themselves by stating that they are “conflicted over their sense of masculinity” and their “role within patriarchy” (translation: a sucker with low self-esteem who has read too many feminist tracts, and will be easy to dominate/manipulate).
And then of course, there is the likely majority, which is dudes who say/do things from one or both groups for the express purposes of trying to get some play. Don’t understand those guys other than maybe on a fetish level though, as there’s easier ways to have sex that require a lot less work.
there’s easier ways to have sex that require a lot less work
Maybe its like people make paper by hand, even though it takes a zillion times longer and is crappy compared to the commercially produced stuff- they enjoy the process and sometimes even take a measure of perverse pride in ‘doing things the hard way.’ Basically what I am saying is, maybe dudes who jump through all those hoops to bang womynists know that there are easier options but choose that path anyway– ‘artisinal pussy,’ if you will.
‘artisinal pussy,’ loled in my head irl
small batch only
Bro, liking Ayn Rand is the last thing you want to if you are looking to hook up with a Liberal Arts girl
I was going to make a comment about how I’ve never hooked up with any punx chix of any denomination, because they hate me at first sight.
I’ve never known why this is… but now I do. Not only do I try to stereotype them, but I’m doing it wrong. :(
Ayn Rand is the Emmure of pseudo-Philosophical fiction. F’realz have listened to Anthem while lifting.
Having grown up in the East Bay, I spent a lot of time on Telegraph Ave. when I was kid. In high school I thought all the crusties hanging out on the street were awesome. Then I went to undergrad at Cal and realized that most of them were losers who had run away from their suburban homes to go play punk rocker in Berkeley.
why does it say twin peaks is there some weird connotation attached the that show?
its terrible
thats the connotation
u dont know shit about TV shows, toodaloo mother fucker
#butt wrecked
yo good 1
I dated a punk once, who later turned into a squatter. All he would ever do is criticize the things i did, and how i didn’t know about every single government conspiracy or about how i dressed or the things i listened too, ugh… He went on to washington (shocker!) Turned from a somewhat normal punx (via having the ability to turn normal but went to the other extreme i.e. PATCHES AND STUDS ON EVERYTHING). He proposed to his now wife on acid, which a bum gave him; and under a bridge (how surprising). I recently saw the two of them and jesus fucking christ they smelled like utter dog shit, not surprising was the fact they had a pitbull with them. Every stereotype you could think of with crust punks, these two had it. I’ve had friends in the past (no longer friends with, THANK GOD) who think this lifestyle is cool and admirable… i on the other hand get ridiculed for saying how groce and PUNX it is. GREAT POST!
All he would ever do is criticize
from what I understand, they prefer to characterize it as ‘trying to change how fucked up everything is and not being afraid 2 call people on their bullshit’
might b a mall punk. shit.
Not necessarily a bad thing, imo. you could be worse off (ex: all the other types in the post)
about like 10 years ago or so, maybe less, i wanted to go to pointless fest in philly, so i asked my sweet lady at the time if she would like to come with me. she asked what it was so i told her its basically a bunch of dudes telling you what to do and what not to do over some of the shittiest music you’ve ever heard. she didnt come. i had mad fun tho.
being a yung punx in philly meant p-fest erry summer!!
kevin bacons kid spanging across from the venue/10
pls elaborate
still go to punks picnic everyyear !! ^.^
bro u never heard of TERROR LEVEL RED?! kevin bacons kid had a siqq crust band. last pointless fest (06?) he was sitting across from the venue spanging. i used to always be like “YO ARENT YOU KEVIN BACONS KID?” when id see him at shore house shows
and punx picnic is grose dude
To be honest, my dating pool consists of girls that reschedule dates because a Professor will be holding a meeting about a midterm or something. Given that I’m still young and hold no expectations with these sorts of bishes, I DO wanna get into dating/smashing them casually because #YOLO.
Any tips on where to find these bishes and how to get them into bed? I’ve never really run into any of these types of bishes. Do I need to akshully know about hardcore and whatever nonsense they’re into?? Will my usual method of just talking about whatever, being chill and then asking them out on a coffee date where we wind up talking about semi-intellectual topics work??
Give a bro who needs crazy in his life–if only for a bit–some tips!
as somebody who has dated crazy girls for the majority of my adult life, disregard coffee shops and srs topics, acquire dingy bars. i once had a first date that was looking at graffiti under a bridge then drinking sparks (remember that stuff??) underneath said bridge.
forgot iphones on the crust punks cornerstone topics list
i will smash period pussy 10/10 times. if i havent had sex recently; with a girlfriend; whatever. would rather it wasnt bloody and smelling like sewer-pennies but whateves.. ive done worse shit. easy enough to wash blood of your cock/balls…
dza dza dat nigga dza.
lost coffee. cheers.
re: Liberal Arts Punx . . . brb having flashbacks of my college years (1996-2000). I never dated any doe, just argued with them about how dumb they were, and hung out with them way 2 much because the alternative was mall/surf bros, whom I have even less in common with.
Where is latinoheat? I’m starting to get worried :|
don’t worry u guise.. im in vegas partying (cue “I’m sexy and I know it” from LMFAO)…
bb round sundayish… getting my tan on n talking to hot euro chix dat be in these here hotel/casinos n shit….
you had me @ “period sex”
x-D
I came for “period sex” and stayed for “sewer pennies.”
ah yea theres some crust punx in my hood. i was visitin my buddy in montreal (crust punk haven) not long ago and we walked by this crust punx bish with a bunch of scary lookin’ facial tattoos and we just looked at each other with the ‘wtf’ stare after we passed her by. she was with a small crust punk crew (they always roll in packs) n’ they had a dog with em too (why do these ppl always have dogs, u cant even take care of yourself , let alone a dog, wtf)
& i genuinely thought take this to your grave was the first fall out boy album. jus looked up their discography and their first album only has 9 songs and its been labeled a mini-LP on wikipedia. so i was half right/wrong?
Where do glue sniffing disorder freaks fit into this?